[Cool Mo D]

Originally Posted by Sponge Bob

So what is the €500m for ???

It is likely that this would be used as an upfront capital payment to the successful tendering groups, to make it easier for them to finance the project.
Paying some of the cost upfront makes sense, as I would assume that the Government can borrow from the EIB cheaper then whatever metro consortium could borrow themselves, but we would still not have to come up with all the cash straight away.

[Sponge Bob]

That is kinda impossible unless the EIB makes the same offer to all consortia, otherwise the court cases and damages would be only shockin bud!

We agree overall Cool but the mechanism to inject these funds into existing tenders has to be equitable. I reckon the NPRF will match them up as well.

[Enbee]

Originally Posted by BluntGuy

Indeed. It would be nice to have a north-south "Metro" spine, with some services running all the way, some from Airport-St.Stephen's Green and som from St.Stephen's Green-Cherrywood.

Of course, if we'd had proper planning, this would've been done from the start. But alas, an awkward and expensive Green Line upgrade would be needed to make this happen, along with some fairly redundant stops (Harcourt doesn't need Luas and Metro tbh).

Harcourt doesn't need both (*if current passenger numbers are any indication) but it is currently a stop so an overlap with a Metro stop would make sense so MN and Luas would have two or three interchanges. I can imagine the melee we might see at St. Stephen's Green if large numbers of passengers have to change from one line to the other. Or will passenger numbers never be high enough?

[markpb]

Originally Posted by BluntGuy

Of course, the other big project which has been mooted at about a billion (prob realistically around €1.5 billion) is DART Underground. Now THAT offers value for money that Metro North will never be able to compete with.

I don't want to get into another flame war over this - I think most of us have accepted that both DU and MN are required to grow Dublin properly. The constant attacking and sniping of MN by DU fanboys is growing tiring - MN does something DU can't - it adds train coverage to huge swathes of the city and it's suburbs.

Originally Posted by BluntGuy

Harcourt doesn't need Luas and Metro tbh

Of all the parts of the city (ignoring interchanges), surely the CBD is the one area that couldn't have enough public transport!?

[spacetweek]

This is all good news about MN, which seems a sure thing now.

As for Harcourt St, I don't think people are suggesting that it will have 2 transport options. The way it will/should work is that MN will continue underground from Stephen's Green. The next stop will be Ranelagh underground where passengers can change to Luas Green Line. The next stop will be somewhere to the southwest of that, etc.

The Luas Green line section from Ranelegh-Harcourt-Stephen's Green will *not* be decommissioned. This was the original plan but it's clear that it can't happen now.

[Enbee]

Originally Posted by spacetweek

As for Harcourt St, I don't think people are suggesting that it will have 2 transport options. The way it will/should work is that MN will continue underground from Stephen's Green. The next stop will be Ranelagh underground where passengers can change to Luas Green Line. The next stop will be somewhere to the southwest of that, etc.

Those two are some distance apart. I'd imagine a MN station somewhere in the vicinity of the Harcourt and Charlemont stops would be desirable.

Given that the speed of the service takes off after the canal I'd rather see the doubling up cease there and have the MN line veer west of Ranelagh.

Originally Posted by spacetweek

The Luas Green line section from Ranelegh-Harcourt-Stephen's Green will *not* be decommissioned. This was the original plan but it's clear that it can't happen now.

Better to extend it further into the CBD.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by Enbee

Harcourt doesn't need both (*if current passenger numbers are any indication) but it is currently a stop so an overlap with a Metro stop would make sense so MN and Luas would have two or three interchanges. I can imagine the melee we might see at St. Stephen's Green if large numbers of passengers have to change from one line to the other. Or will passenger numbers never be high enough?

To be honest they should aim to take the Luas line underground just as it gets to SSG station, and allow passengers to switch from MN/DARTu onto the Luas whilst remaining underground.

Far more sensible even if it requires a little extra work - really hope they do this.

And if they can do it for all the other stations that meet the Luas that'd be ideal.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Sponge Bob

Yeah but as certain loony posters loudly trilled....it is a ppp and will not cost €500m in any given year. So what is the €500m for ???

Well, who is the EIB giving the money to? Is it the winning consortium or the government? The government does need some money to cover design, supervision, land acquisition, compensation, etc. If it goes to the consortium, its money they don't need to come up with themselves, thereby reducing their borrowing requirements and potentially reducing their need to load the project to make a profit.

Originally Posted by markpb

I don't want to get into another flame war over this - I think most of us have accepted that both DU and MN are required to grow Dublin properly. The constant attacking and sniping of MN by DU fanboys is growing tiring - MN does something DU can't - it adds train coverage to huge swathes of the city and it's suburbs.

Did you get that the wrong way around.

If they wanted to be inventive, MN could come up through the Iveagh Gardens and connect at Adelaide Road. It might require alterations to the road though.

[Enbee]

Originally Posted by Yixian

To be honest they should aim to take the Luas line underground just as it gets to SSG station, and allow passengers to switch from MN/DARTu onto the Luas whilst remaining underground.

Far more sensible even if it requires a little extra work - really hope they do this.

It would be good if the line terminated there but I can't see it happening if it means the station would need to be even larger.

As it is I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a fuss made over the potential disruption (and fear of damage) to the green. That said I don't live in Dublin anymore so I barely even have a toe in the water.

[Yixian]

I doubt much permanent damage will be done - it will be an absolute mess during construction but I think they have actually agreed to improve the green beyond even it's current state after it's finished.

[dRNk SAnTA]

Why is it that there are ticket stiles in the underground stations, but the outer stations will be open platforms? Is that to prevent begging/anti social behaviour in the underground stations?

Also, have we seen any details about how passengers will switch between Metro North and Dart Underground lines @ Stephens Green? Last I heard, they were going to have some form of stairs/steps?

[Irish and Proud]

Originally Posted by dRNk SAnTA

Also, have we seen any details about how passengers will switch between Metro North and Dart Underground lines @ Stephens Green? Last I heard, they were going to have some form of stairs/steps?

...yep, I think a lift and stairway is the plan - although Stephens Green Station will be deep, the Metro North will pass just above the Dart Underground, so there won't be a big difference between the level of the MN and DU platforms.

Regards!

[spacetweek]

Originally Posted by dRNk SAnTA

Why is it that there are ticket stiles in the underground stations, but the outer stations will be open platforms? Is that to prevent begging/anti social behaviour in the underground stations?

Are they doing that? Good, cause it's 100% essential not to have open access underground stations. They'd be overrun with thugs within a week. The outdoor stations have more passive security.

[smokingman]

I'd love if any of this happened but call me pesimistic, it'll probably get canned.

Anyone know anything that'll happily put me straight?

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by smokingman

I'd love if any of this happened but call me pesimistic, it'll probably get canned.

Anyone know anything that'll happily put me straight?

Most of the money for both MN and DARTu is secured and the project is well underway, the only obstacle is ABP causing pointless delays but what's new.

These projects are 100% going to happen.