[Boston]

I recently read a thread in Helpdesk which highlighted for me that there's a difference of opinion with regards to the role of infractions and in fact the role of moderators. One moderator put forward that an infraction was a form of punishment for breaking a rule while others put forward that infractions are merely a tool for keeping good order in a thread and if that can be achieved by other means so be it.

So I think the an infraction can be viewed as follows;

• A low level punishment for breaching forum/site rules.
• A low level warning to stop breaching forum/site rules.
• A combination of both.

Now you might ask, what's the difference between a warning and a punishment. Well for one a warning can be tailored to suit a specific situation whereas a punishment has be consistent in order to have credibility. The reason for this is that the aims are different depending on what you want. A punishment is as much for the user receiving it as for the audience were as a warning is general just about the user so you don't have to really take into account how it's perceived by anyone else. That in turn gives you a degree of flexibility

There's also the effect that a punishment has versus the effect that a warning has. For instance a warning will often de-escalate a situation whereas a punishment will often escalate it. The reason for this is that with a warning the receiver losses nothing, but the whole point of a punishment is that the receiver has lost something of value or gained something of negative value.

Looking through my own list of infractions I about half are warnings and half are attempts at punishment. I know from personal experience which ones are more effective. On certain forums I post on the moderators have gone to lengths to point out that infractions are merely warnings and not to be taken personally. While on other forums such as soccer infractions are certainly seen as the third category.

Something which is immediately obvious when I looked at the trends is that the moderators who viewed their role as care taker tended towards warnings while the moderators who viewed themselves as "the law" tended towards punishment. It's an interesting juxtaposition I've not thought deeply about before.

[KevIRL]

Personally I've always hated them. Some of the infraction reasons (Being naughty) are nonsense imo. In my experience they just seem to serve to increase tensions and pi$$ off users.

A PM, on thread warning, or even the 'do not post in this thread again' message are in my opinion a better way of rectifying issues. The infractions seem to me, to be a throw back to being in school on a par with detention points or similar ticking offs.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by KevIRL

The infractions seem to me, to be a throw back to being in school on a par with detention points or similar ticking offs.

Thats exactly what they remind me of, I was just thinking that.

[5starpool]

I have never liked them either, but they can be useful as a way of tracking who has a history of stuff, although I must admit to rarely having looked at them when I was a mod. I did suggest just viewable on profile notes (which I now know vbulletin allows) but this is apparantly a breach of some privacy or information act (can't remember the exact name now).

I think I gave less than 10 of them when I was a mod, and only then for users I did not recognise at all in case they did the same thing again a while later.

I also think a lot of people get the 'you are a very naughty boy/girl' feeling when they receive them as well.

[LoLth]

I used to use them as a way to let a user know that what he/she was doign wasnt on and knowing that the infraction would disappear soon made it a nice non-permanent nudge. usually I'd send a PM as well (your post in XXX thread) explaining why its wrong.

This served two purposes: 1, its a visible reprimand showing other users that there is a constant level being maintained. 2, on the off chance that the user is a spammer or low level troll just getting started then the point I temporarily add will be one point closer to takign them offline. Of course , this all depends on other mods also using infractions...

Now, I mainly use a profile infraction to keep a permanent record of users who have had a permanent site ban lifted after they have agreed to abide by the rules and terms of use for boards.ie. That way, if they do something to get banned again anyone else setting the punishment can see that they've already had their second chance.

I can see the infraction system eventually becoming the forum specific method of correction. for charter based rules violations and the heavier temp/perm forum/cat/site bans being reserved for the bigger stuff. In busier forums the mods simply dont always have time to PM each transgressor to explain the whys and wherefores and the users get antsy if their PM responses arent themselves responded to quickly.

over-moderation? perhaps. Its certainly a criticism levelled at boards quite frequently but, looking at growth rates I think the moderation level is appreciated. modding is more about creating a stable discussion place for users than it is about imposing personal preferences and I think the temporary nature of infractions lend themselves very well to that end and give the mod a way out of being too stringent. Sort of a virtual "give them enough rope".

The problem I would see with infractions is consistency. (and yes, I have always hated the "being naughty" infraction. Sort of insult to injury imho)

[stovelid]

I don't like them because no matter how trivial they are intended to be when applied, the collective sight of them "on your record" seems like a stain that is out of proportion to the (often ancient) misdemeanors that prompted them.

I only have about 6 or 7, mind, but it's still irritating to think that they're still recorded for people to see.

[LoLth]

Just as an addition to this thread:

this is more of an issue for feedback rather than feedforward. Feedback is concerned with comments and critisicm (or praise) of boards policies and systems already in place.

Feedforward is really more for dealing with policies and systems we think are needed or should be refined.

perhaps the question in the original post should not be "what do you think of infractions" but instead should be "what do you think can be done with the infraction system to help it work better?" or "how do you see the infraction system being used in the future?"

[DeVore]

We'll put it on the list of things we need to debate in FF.

DeV.

[5starpool]

Originally Posted by LoLth

Just as an addition to this thread:

this is more of an issue for feedback rather than feedforward. Feedback is concerned with comments and critisicm (or praise) of boards policies and systems already in place.

It was moved from feedback to here last night by an admin just after it was started. I think that the discussion of them would be a good fit for FF. I don't expect the outcome to be a binning of them, but perhaps a change to them so that things like 'being naughty' isn't on the list, and a clear delineation between the punishment aspect and the just noting something for the future aspect, and I look forward (ish) to reading any discussions about it.

[DeVore]

I agree with 5star.

Feedback: Why did I/he get this infraction???


FeedForeward: Are infractions really a good way for us to police the site? There's got to be a better way which resolves issues A, B, C but keeps the intention of D, E and F.

DeV.

[Wibbs]

Helpdesk: Why has my car broken down again.

[pickarooney]

The more I try and understand these cards (I just refuse to call them "infractions"), the less sense they make. I issued one or two but then gave up on them in favour of debate and in-thread messages.

[Dohnny Jepp]

Common sense + communication > Infractions

[SkepticOne]

Is it the case that infractions appear permanently on the users record and at any stage can be viewed by all the other mods?

[RoundyMooney]

Yes.