Gender, going to jail, male victims, etc.: the Caroline Brennan case, etc.

[iptba]

Although I do not follow the courts that closely, I have seen it pointed out that some women in Ireland have got light sentences for killing men.

To me, it looks like Caroline Brennan got a light sentence (5 years suspended) for killing her brother with a knife.

I think if the defendant had been a man or the dead person had been a woman, I think time it is quite likely that time would have been served.

People talk about domestic violence and that it should be taken seriously. Well, this could be said to be an example of domestic violence against a man.

[deadhead13]

There was the case of Patrick O'Dwyer who was sentenced to 6 years in prison for the manslaughter of his sister in 2007. Similar offences on the face of it, but dramatically different sentences.

[Giselle]

Originally Posted by iptba

Although I do not follow the courts that closely, I have seen it pointed out that some women in Ireland have got light sentences for killing men.

To me, it looks like Caroline Brennan got a light sentence (5 years suspended) for killing her brother with a knife.

I think if the defendant had been a man or the dead person had been a woman, I think time it is quite likely that time would have been served.

People talk about domestic violence and that it should be taken seriously. Well, this could be said to be an example of domestic violence against a man.

She had apparently suffered constant bullying growing up, and threats in the time immediately prior to the killing, from her brother.

She was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. The sentencing guidelines are different.

[Cicero]

without going into the details, I'm not quite sure that the cases above are similar....

[deadhead13]

Originally Posted by Cicero

without going into the details, I'm not quite sure that the cases above are similar....

It was an observation more than anything else. I don't know enough about either case to express an opinion either way really.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by deadhead13

It was an observation more than anything else. I don't know enough about either case to express an opinion either way really.

Neither do I, nor do I think anyone does...OP...if you can 'risk' posting a 3rd post, please elaborate on your rationale for referencing such a case and posting here..........

[iptba]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Neither do I, nor do I think anyone does...OP...if you can 'risk' posting a 3rd post, please elaborate on your rationale for referencing such a case and posting here..........

Lots of people complain about sentencing all the time on all sorts of issues including gender issues.

As I said, I believe gender could be a factor particularly in terms of the defendant but perhaps also in terms of the gender of the person who died.

I also think the issue of gender in sentencing is in general of interest (i.e. not just this case). A term, "chivalry justice", has been coined to describe the fact that gender can blame a part in sentencing. Men could perhaps complain about a lack of equality in this area.

As I mentioned, this issue could also be said to touch on the issue of domestic violence and whether domestic violence against men is taken seriously/dealt with in the same way that domestic violence against women is dealt with. And perhaps men should be speaking up more on the issue. Also, if a man feels threatened at home (not really the issue in this case but the heading was broader), there aren't that I know of many or any refuges for men in Ireland? I know there are a few in the UK. This can leave men in a difficult situation.

If she wasn't convicted of anything, it might be a different thing, maybe it shouldn't be discussed so much in a public forum then. But this person was convincted of manslaughter and the public can then discuss sentencing and matters relating to it, if they want.

I'm very interested in what could be called "men's issues" and looking at issues from a male perspective and the charter looks like such discussions are relevant.

I'm not sure why freedom of speech on such matters should be curtailed just because you might have a different perspective than mine. (Not sure if the "original" Cicero had anything to say on the issue of free speech?). I will keep an eye out to look for patterns in terms of threads where you question their right to exist in the GC to see if you could be said to be "picking" on this thead in an unfair manner or whether there is some unwritten aspect of the charter I'm missing.

[iptba]

Originally Posted by Giselle

She had apparently suffered constant bullying growing up, and threats in the time immediately prior to the killing, from her brother.

So does that mean bringing a knife out (something which is being discouraged) and then using it to kill somebody is seen as (almost) acceptable? (which is the signal a suspended sentence gives out)

I imagine quite a few men have been bullied in their time but that wouldn't stop them spending some time in jail if they took it out and then stabbed somebody to death.

And as I said, this is not the first case where a light sentence has been given.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by iptba

I will keep an eye out to look for patterns in terms of threads where you question their right to exist in the GC to see if you could be said to be "picking" on this thead in an unfair manner or whether there is some unwritten aspect of the charter I'm missing.

..off you go...personally I could think of more interesting things to do with my time than read over my previous posts but if it rocks your boat, then by all means..btw, if you have a good roast chicken recipe, there's a food forum that I post in that would be delighted to hear from you...

...in answer to your original post, I don't think we will get anywhere talking about cases that as you say, 'you haven't followed closely' ...I would prefer to see a thread created based on fact, not heresay..in addition, comparing one case of 'manslaughter' to another , wether male or female related, without the facts, will, in my opinion, only lead up a blind alley and no-one will be any the wiser...

[iptba]

Originally Posted by Cicero

...in answer to your original post, I don't think we will get anywhere talking about cases that as you say, 'you haven't followed closely' ...I would prefer to see a thread created based on fact, not heresay..in addition, comparing one case of 'manslaughter' to another , wether male or female related, without the facts, will, in my opinion, only lead up a blind alley and no-one will be any the wiser...

Who is to say that I am going to be the only supplier of facts in the thread? Other people can have specialist knowledge and know the information already; or have their interest piqued and then start reading up on the issue.

I have read things that appear to show there is an issue with regard to different sentencing based on gender in Irish courts. And I have read a bit on "chivalry justice" based on data from other countries.

This isn't a peer-reviewed journal - one should be allowed throw out observations and thoughts even if you personally don't find them of interest, it somehow makes you uncomfortable (e.g. you don't particularly like masculist opinions expressed too much http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism ?) or you think such discussions will only lead up a blind alley. You're not an all-powerful emperor, Cicero.

[K-9]

Originally Posted by iptba

So does that mean bringing a knife out (something which is being discouraged) and then using it to kill somebody is seen as (almost) acceptable? (which is the signal a suspended sentence gives out)

I imagine quite a few men have been bullied in their time but that wouldn't stop them spending some time in jail if they took it out and then stabbed somebody to death.

And as I said, this is not the first case where a light sentence has been given.

That would be my worry in this case, it becomes acceptable and somebody with intent could use the manslaugther defence.

In her defence, there was a history of abuse, he was a violent heroin addict and she said he had given his girlfriend a beating and she went into the house. He said "you're next" and he had a mop in his hand!

If the genders were reversed, I'm not sure if a jury would be as understanding.

[CDfm]

Originally Posted by K-9

That would be my worry in this case, it becomes acceptable and somebody with intent could use the manslaugther defence.
In her defence, there was a history of abuse, he was a violent heroin addict and she said he had given his girlfriend a beating and she went into the house. He said "you're next" and he had a mop in his hand!
If the genders were reversed, I'm not sure if a jury would be as understanding.

This is an interestining article from the Sunday Tribune
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2...ady-injustice/


Studies in the USA show that when you exclude street crime and concentrate on domestic violence fatalities then are about equally split between genders.


I thought that even if you were using reasonable force to protect yourself that you have a duty to retreat. I will never understand the logic of this case..

[Raze_them_all]

Originally Posted by iptba

Although I do not follow the courts that closely, I have seen it pointed out that some women in Ireland have got light sentences for killing men.

To me, it looks like Caroline Brennan got a light sentence (5 years suspended) for killing her brother with a knife.

I think if the defendant had been a man or the dead person had been a woman, I think time it is quite likely that time would have been served.

People talk about domestic violence and that it should be taken seriously. Well, this could be said to be an example of domestic violence against a man.

It'd annoy you further to know that her female cousin also stabbed her fella through the lung(he lived) and got away with it too.

The place they are from is an utter kip.

[CDfm]

Originally Posted by Raze_them_all

It'd annoy you further to know that her female cousin also stabbed her fella through the lung(he lived) and got away with it too.

what sentence did she get ????????

[Raze_them_all]

Originally Posted by CDfm

what sentence did she get ????????

No idea I don't follow the lives of comer people, but she didn't serve any time cos she's still walking around the dump and it was the same month as yer one topped her brother