[ei.sdraob]

Originally Posted by ShowMeTheCash

UK are in control of what they do with their currency, with the euro we are simply along for the ride. ?

simple question:

would you trust Zanu FF in control of such an important economic tool as money printing?

[thebman]

Originally Posted by ShowMeTheCash

We did not need to join the euro, low corporation tax and back door deals with Charlie and Bertie got most of the big MNC's on board - these MNC will leave us high and dry which a lot are doing now... (DELL) (SEAGATE) Great plan for 15 years of growth we have managed to get into so much debit we are going to be paying for it for the next 50.

It all comes down to money, europe and the west in general are not compedative, India and China will do your job and mine for a 1/5 of the price, taking the euro we traded in any chance to compete for our own jobs.

In that case no country in the Eurozone should be getting higher investment now that previous years.

So why are Italy and Germany getting higher levels of investment? Magic?

[woodseb]

Aside from the economic/fiscal implications of leaving the euro which i don't think justify a move has any of the proponents of leaving the euro considered the practical consquences of suddenly ditching the Euro?

There would be chaos as there would still be a propert function physical currency around the country and people would hoard Euros in the face of a plummeting New Punt. It could take years for a full switchover and those who rely on government payments (welfare, public service) would be much worse off long with punishing those who kept their savings in bank accounts.

It is not as 'simple' a process as in other examples when the central bank just devalued an existing currency

[SkepticOne]

Originally Posted by woodseb

There would be chaos as there would still be a propert function physical currency around the country and people would hoard Euros in the face of a plummeting New Punt. It could take years for a full switchover and those who rely on government payments (welfare, public service) would be much worse off long with punishing those who kept their savings in bank accounts.

It is not as 'simple' a process as in other examples when the central bank just devalued an existing currency

They could hoard euros but all taxes would have to be paid in the new currency. All VAT from retailers, all government salaries etc would be in the new currency. Legal tender would be in the new currency. Hoarding Euros would protect savings from the initial devaluation but on an ongoing basis people would switch over to the new currency to avoid transaction costs and for convenience.

[ei.sdraob]

Originally Posted by SkepticOne

They could hoard euros but all taxes would have to be paid in the new currency. All VAT from retailers, all government salaries etc would be in the new currency. Legal tender would be in the new currency. Hoarding Euros would protect savings from the initial devaluation but on an ongoing basis people would switch over to the new currency to avoid transaction costs and for convenience.

Yes just like people used gold and us dollars in zimbabwe with the local currency being useless, and eventually the government gave up and switched to us dollars

the use of money requires confidence, what you propose would shatter what little confidence is left (in exchange for what exactly?)

checkout Russia's default in the 90's almost everyone switched to using us dollars then, why?

[Nate--IRL--]

Originally Posted by SkepticOne

They could hoard euros but all taxes would have to be paid in the new currency. All VAT from retailers, all government salaries etc would be in the new currency. Legal tender would be in the new currency. Hoarding Euros would protect savings from the initial devaluation but on an ongoing basis people would switch over to the new currency to avoid transaction costs and for convenience.

And where does this legal tender come from? They can hardly print/mint it all on the night before the switch over. Banks would have to be shut down until An Punt Nua can be delivered to them. How long would that take? What damage would happen to the economy with no functioning banks?

Nate

[ShowMeTheCash]

Originally Posted by cson

To pre-empt; I'd imagine it would be in general terms. There is more to the economy than property despite what people of a few years ago would have you believe.

Yeah we have business and we are too expensive - way to expensive - our nearest neighbour the UK. Is considerably cheaper, you just need to look at Newry on the weekend to see this. So what can we do to ensure Irish jobs? ensure Irish trade??? Tell everyone we need to take a 20 - 40% pay cut just to be compedative with the UK?

Jobs are still being lost in ireland we have not yet hit rock bottom, without money coming in everything else is going to fail at some point.

If the euro is devalued I think it will help the country with day-to-day business and I think this is where we need to start. Else people just need to get real and realise they are not worth the money they are being paid.

[ShowMeTheCash]

Originally Posted by cson

They're not the type of jobs Ireland should be targetting and endeavouring to create in the first place.

You are living in the dark ages - Going back 20 years there is a lot of things the asian countries may not have been able to do whether that be due to infrastrcture or the fact the country was too poor, this is no longer the case as a nation we do not stand head and shoulders anymore above these countries if anything they will over take us. Our education over the last 20 years in a gloabl sense is not nearly as strong as it was we do not have anything of real value that comes from ireland i.e. Dimonds, oil etc....

Tell me exactly what jobs we should be looking to create that could not be done in say China or India?

[ei.sdraob]

Originally Posted by ShowMeTheCash

Yeah we have business and we are too expensive - way to expensive - our nearest neighbour the UK. Is considerably cheaper, you just need to look at Newry on the weekend to see this. So what can we do to ensure Irish jobs? ensure Irish trade??? Tell everyone we need to take a 20 - 40% pay cut just to be compedative with the UK?.

once again our uncompetitiveness has little to do with the currency

your logic is based on false premise hence its a fail

[K-9]

Maybe the problem is we have a market of 500 odd million people using the same currency as us and we haven't exploited it as we were too busy selling houses and services to each other?

The EU is our biggest single market and multinationals have taken advantage of it. Our indigenous exporters don't seem to have to the same level of success.

[fontanalis]

Originally Posted by woodseb

Aside from the economic/fiscal implications of leaving the euro which i don't think justify a move has any of the proponents of leaving the euro considered the practical consquences of suddenly ditching the Euro?

There would be chaos as there would still be a propert function physical currency around the country and people would hoard Euros in the face of a plummeting New Punt. It could take years for a full switchover and those who rely on government payments (welfare, public service) would be much worse off long with punishing those who kept their savings in bank accounts.

It is not as 'simple' a process as in other examples when the central bank just devalued an existing currency

Ah but back in Devs shamrock Disneyland they had the punt. Seriously, some people seem to have bad memory and a knack of not attributing our own failure to ourselves, not good when you want to get out of a blackhole.

[fontanalis]

Originally Posted by ShowMeTheCash

You are living in the dark ages - Going back 20 years there is a lot of things the asian countries may not have been able to do whether that be due to infrastrcture or the fact the country was too poor, this is no longer the case as a nation we do not stand head and shoulders anymore above these countries if anything they will over take us. Our education over the last 20 years in a gloabl sense is not nearly as strong as it was we do not have anything of real value that comes from ireland i.e. Dimonds, oil etc....

Tell me exactly what jobs we should be looking to create that could not be done in say China or India?

Noone would work for China or India level wages.

[SkepticOne]

Article by Professor Martin Feldstein (via the irish Economy blog) here recommending temporary exit from the Eurozone for Greece.

The European economic and monetary union is doubly flawed. First, it forces diverse countries to live with a single interest rate and exchange rate that cannot be appropriate for all members. Second, combining a single currency with independent national budget policies encourages fiscal profligacy. The Greek situation is a manifestation of these flaws. If European political leaders nevertheless want to preserve the current system, allowing a temporary exchange rate reset for Greece may be the best option.

[ShowMeTheCash]

Originally Posted by ei.sdraob

once again our uncompetitiveness has little to do with the currency

your logic is based on false premise hence its a fail

What is currency? A value we put on something that is not real, owning our currency and shifting the goal posts is a lot easier than trying to adjust the entire country

[ShowMeTheCash]

Originally Posted by fontanalis

Noone would work for China or India level wages.

Exactly!