The Statistics of Penis Wielding Oppressors

[The Corinthian]

This article was in the Irish Times today, based upon this CSO report.

What struck me was that issues such men being nearly twice as likely to leave school early as women were barely touched on, and really only to highlight the usual topic of how women earn less than men, even though the report readily admits that "In interpreting [comparative incomes], it should be borne in mind that no account has been taken of the number of hours being worked or of the occupations being performed by men and women".

Indeed, if you actually look at the figures men work on average 23% longer hours than women, and when you look at age as a factor, the hours of both sexes drops after age 40, but this is particularly pronounced in women - 44.8% drop (if single) up to 72.1% drop (if married).

Given pay scales tend to increase with age, had anyone thought of seeing if this might affect the figures somewhat? There's a thought.

Other trends that were completely ignored, such as men being far more likely to be either unemployed or even long term unemployed, were ignored. Or that the overpaid men are presumably the only breadwinners for the 531,800 Irish households where a woman is "looking after home/family", as opposed to the 6,700 where a man is "looking after home/family".

(Here's another fun statistic: Women make up 91.2% of loan parents, by age of the youngest child, yet are also 97.9% of the recipients of one-parent family payments, which seemingly points to men being several times less likely to be recipients of one-parent family payments when they are single parents.)

Is it just me or are other men kind of fed up that these reports are continually being trotted out with simplistic "Women are Paid Less Than Men" mantras, with the assumption that it is down to discrimination or oppression when it would appear that this has not been the case for a very long time? Or for that matter that statistics that point to men being disadvantaged in society are simply ignored or trivialized?

You see these statistics and claims being trotted out by groups every day, but why does no one seem to want to question their validity?

[smk89]

Nice how when statistics are really analysed the gender income gap doesn't really seem as great. Though womens wages are only 69% of mens and they only work 23% less hours

[sKepTics_George]

Agreed,

[LostinBlanch]

Originally Posted by smk89

Nice how when statistics are really analysed the gender income gap doesn't really seem as great. Though womens wages are only 69% of mens and they only work 23% less hours

What did Mrs Disraeli say about statistics?

Lies, Damn Lies and articles like these?

Corinthian is right to point out glaring anomalies that are ignored in the article such as the ignoring of the fact that males are more likely to leave school without qualifications, are more likely to be unemployed or long term unemployed. Or that fact suggesting that men are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to one parent family payments.

How about the amount of money put into campaigns against breast cancer compared to prostate cancer? I'm not suggesting it's a zero sum game and that funding one campaign should mean that another is starved of funds. But it does point to the health of one sector being rated higher than the health of another sector. Or the appallingly high male suicide rate which is being ignored. If there was a similar suicide rate among women I am sure that we wouldn't hear the end of it ever . . . and rightly so. But it barely gets a mention. In fact the only commentator I have heard mention it consistently since the mid 90's is John Waters. I'm far from being a fan of his but he should get kudos for his efforts. But despite his championing this cause nothing has happened.

It could almost lead one to suggest that the prevailing attitide is "they're men, f**k 'em."

[amacachi]

Originally Posted by LostinBlanch

It could almost lead one to suggest that the prevailing attitide is "they're men, f**k 'em."

Pretty much.

[The Corinthian]

Originally Posted by smk89

Nice how when statistics are really analysed the gender income gap doesn't really seem as great. Though womens wages are only 69% of mens and they only work 23% less hours

I did not want to suggest that simply because women work fewer hours on average and in general that this would explain the disparaty alone. What is equally, if not even more important, is that women appear to work significantly fewer hours later in their careers when salaries will be significantly higher, which in turn would affect the average.

Ultimately, I am not attempting to explain such statistical anomalies, only to point out that it is not as simple as we have been led to believe and that we have at this stage been fed a pack of dubious facts - if not out-and-out lies - so as to justify a specific political agenda.

For example, check this misandrist rant out. Some of the points raised are arguably valid, however many are purely speculative, and some are actually untrue (in the case of #8, it is regrettably the case that men are fare more likely to be attacked late at night than women, for example). Why is it acceptable to come out with such sexist propaganda - but only when the target is a man?

Personally, I've had enough of this BS.

[Thaedydal]

I wonder how many of those women working 23% less hours in the career are the main carer on call for a dependent be it a child or an elderly parent.

And how many of those boys who leave school early ie before the leaving cert are doing so to take up apprenticeships.

[nedtheshed]

AFAIK the majority of apprecticeships nowadays require a pass leaving cert.

[The Corinthian]

Originally Posted by Thaedydal

I wonder how many of those women working 23% less hours in the career are the main carer on call for a dependent be it a child or an elderly parent.

Given the aforementioned disparity between male and female who are "looking after home/family" - of which 98.8% are female - I would think this is a strong hypothesis.

The problem is that this is not how such surveys are presented. Typically, the inference is that lower salaries are down to discrimination in the workplace. If on the other hand it is down to the attitude that only a woman can care for the home and children, then realistically we cannot put the blame on men for this.

Instead, practically no attempt at analysis is made before conclusions are inferred.

I noticed that "after adjusting for the longer hours worked by men, the report showed, women’s hourly earnings remained only about 87 per cent of men’s" has appeared in the article. I'm pretty certain that was not there yesterday - can anyone confirm if this was present in the print copy of yesterday's IT?

And how many of those boys who leave school early ie before the leaving cert are doing so to take up apprenticeships.

It's possible. I certainly believe that women are still discriminated in many of the trades (explaining in part, why they now outnumber men in the professions).

[taconnol]

Originally Posted by The Corinthian

I noticed that "after adjusting for the longer hours worked by men, the report showed, women’s hourly earnings remained only about 87 per cent of men’s" has appeared in the article. I'm pretty certain that was not there yesterday - can anyone confirm if this was present in the print copy of yesterday's IT?

Not sure but it was always in the online one - I read it soon after it was published.

Originally Posted by The Corinthian

It's possible. I certainly believe that women are still discriminated in many of the trades (explaining in part, why they now outnumber men in the professions).

I read somewhere that Ireland has a very gendered workforce, as in men and women both tend to stick to the traditional jobs for their gender. Of course this can work against both genders.

[Snow-Monkey]

Originally Posted by Thaedydal

And how many of those boys who leave school early ie before the leaving cert are doing so to take up apprenticeships.

yep but sure all 16 young men want are cars women and money and lack the ability to forcasting ability to see past there noise's which to a degree is why we have so many out of work trades men thats why the industry should be caped to protect againist things like the curent problems...
I left school but didnt do an apenticeship....

[WindSock]

Originally Posted by The Corinthian

The problem is that this is not how such surveys are presented. Typically, the inference is that lower salaries are down to discrimination in the workplace. If on the other hand it is down to the attitude that only a woman can care for the home and children, then realistically we cannot put the blame on men for this.

No one is blaming men for anything though.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by Thaedydal

And how many of those boys who leave school early ie before the leaving cert are doing so to take up apprenticeships.

Far less then would have been the case 15 yeas ago. Working as unskileld labour on a building site is not taking up an apprentice. Of all the lads in my brothers year who left early for "a trade" he was the only one to complete a full apprenticeship.

[Thaedydal]

No and Yes.

No as in it's not all mens fault but Yes as in it's societies fault and men are a part of that and upholding the status quo and more so often in the world of business and work.

[Boston]

But so are women.