Need a ton of advice.

Danny Med · 06-02-2010, 17:18

Right, i have been working part-time (14hrs/week on fri and sat) in a bar for the past 2 years (started after 18 y.o.a.) i am still on minimum wage. Every now and then we have an event on and i'm required to work more hours. This week was one of those weeks. here are my hours for the week period.
Note: End of paying week is Sunday.

Sunday: 17.03 - 03.12 (10hrs 9mins)
End of week and new clock-in cards.
Monday: 17.07 - 03.19 (10hrs 12mins) (Note that there is only 7hrs 41mins between work periods)
Tuesday: 11.00 - 04.09 (17hrs 9mins) (Only had 2 half hour breaks in 17 hours!)
Wednesday: 17.10 - 01.29 (8hrs 19mins)
Thursday: 17.09 - 02.56 (9hrs 47min)
Friday: 20.06 - 03.16 (7hrs 10 mins)
Saturday: 20.03 - 03.15 (7hrs 12mins)
End
7 days in a row worked, one of the days was 17hrs long, and in total i worked 59hrs 49mins.

There are a few things i would like to know.
What is the legality of the hours.
What am I owed and at what points am I due overtime?
Can anyone work out my gross wages (I am on minimum wage of €8.65).

I am eternally grateful if you can help me with this.

wmpdd3 · 06-02-2010, 19:30

Right....

Do you get time and a third for after 11pm?
or is your pay always 8.65?

If you have a contract, it will have a normal working week on it eventhough you are part-time. We'll take it you are on overtime after 39 hours.

So:

€8.65 x 39 = €337.35
€8.65 x 21 x 1.5= €272.47

=€609.82 before tax etc.

Have a look here in relation to your working day/breaks:

http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/me...ingtimeact.pdf

If your on flat time for those hours I'd look at night work in supermarkets, starting rate would be at least €12.45 per hour including time at a third and you'd get your breaks as supermarkets are audited more often than the food and beverage industry (in my experience).

brightspark · 06-02-2010, 19:38

Hours of work are covered by the working time act of 1997

This is a short guide to the act

http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/me...ingtimeact.pdf

Not sure of your overtime entitlements, generally start at 1.5 times normal after 39 hours/week. BUT that depends on your employer.

You have very odd start/finish times???

Most jobs pay on the quarter hour (usually if you are a couple of minutes late you loose the whole 15 minutes. Also you only get paid for complete 15 minutes of work, i.e. if you finish at 17.00 or 17.14 you wont get paid, but if you stay another minute until 17.15 you get paid for the 15 minutes.)

Are you late starting work most days or are you arriving very early?
Unfair as it sounds most employers penalise employees for being a couple of minutes late, but fail to reward them (in wages anyway) for being early.

Without knowing what arrangement you have with your employer it is difficult to put a figure on how much pay you deserve. But I doubt it is 59hrs 49mins x 8.65 Euro.

No requirement to be paid for breaks either!

The working time act allows for variation so exceeding 48hrs in any given week is not considered illegal.
You are supposed to have 11 hours rest between shifts, but again the act does allow for exceptions.

Danny Med · 07-02-2010, 05:31

Right I asked tonight, what my rate is, and it turns out i have no overtime rate, so i am on a complete flat rate for the whole 60 hours

. so that's about €519
I also have no contract of employment or have signed anything to state that i work there, yet i recieve a payslip and pay taxes and prsi etc... so i asked for that tonight.
I also asked for the p60 at last

@wmpdd3
I am on a flat rate regardless of hours. i don't get any public holiday pay/unsociable hours premium. I work christmas eve, st. stephen's day and new years eve/day for flat rates :/.

thank you that link is really helpful and clrearer than most ones that i've read. loads of new rules learned

I totally agree the bartending industry is a lot less fair than supermarkets and the likes, and i wouldn't mind doing the night work. Like, it is tough enough because i am doing medicine in college as well as the weekend night time work. :/

@brightspark
Thanks again for the link

you know what they say about great minds.... and fools....

Yeah, it's flat rate all the way

yeah i work in a night club and it is a late bar(2am finish), and we have to clean the bar too, which takes till about 3.30/4.00 most nights.
The clock-in machine is 10mins fast xD sorry should have noted that.

yeah we are payed by quarter hour

and yeah we are unpiad for breaks

yeah i read that in the link and it would be averaged over 4 months, not just a single week like i thought

The thing is, is that he asked me to come in at 11am and i said yeah like a fool, because they were genuinely stuck and i am the only other person allowed in this certain bar and i wasn't aware of the 11hr guideline :/
i only got 2 hrs sleep that night and then had a 17 hr shift that day xD i was wrecked.
Thanks for that help so far guys/girls

brightspark · 07-02-2010, 10:20

I have previously broken the 11hr rule myself and if circumstances required it I would do it again. The act allows for less than 11hrs if you make it up after.

Dont think you are entitled to 60 hrs though?

Allowing for the clock being fast and your employer compensating I expect it add up as follows.

Sunday: 17.03 - 03.12 (17.00-03.02) = 10 Hrs
(but that is a seperate week's pay)

Monday: 17.07 - 03.19 (17.00-03.09) = 10 Hrs
Tuesday: 11.00 - 04.09 (11.00-04.00) = 17 Hrs
Wednesday: 17.10 - 01.29 (17.00-01.19) = 8.25 Hrs
Thursday: 17.09 - 02.56 (17.00-02.46) = 9.75 Hrs
Friday: 20.06 - 03.16 (20.00- 03.06) = 7 Hrs
Saturday: 20.03 - 03.15 (20.00-03.05) = 7 Hrs
Total for week = 59Hrs, less 6 x half hour breaks = 56Hrs = 484.40 Euro Gross

Danny Med · 07-02-2010, 15:11

Yeah i have broken it too last year when i finished at 4am and was asked to be in for 9am, and this happened numerous times.

Yes i see where you are coming from there, i somehow doubt they reward us for being early too haha

I will find out on thursday if they have done it this way.
You see i am not sure, what way they calculate the wages, as in, do they do it to the nearest quarter per day or do they add up the hours of the week and then round to the nearest quarter....... i am guessing the former is cheaper for them, so it is prob per day :/
Thanks

Can anyone tell me about pay rises and/or premium rates, or even link me to a good source?

wmpdd3 · 07-02-2010, 21:17

Pay rises are not an entitlement, believe it not unless your employer abide by an agreed union pay scale.

Same with premium pay, it you say you will work on sunday for flat rate then that's what you get unless your employer has an industry agreement that they abide by.

The only exception is bank holidays. You can get double pay for working on a bank hol or a day off in lieu with in 1 month.

06-02-2010, 17:18	#1
Danny Med Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tipperary Posts: 6 Adverts \| Friends	Need a ton of advice. Right, i have been working part-time (14hrs/week on fri and sat) in a bar for the past 2 years (started after 18 y.o.a.) i am still on minimum wage. Every now and then we have an event on and i'm required to work more hours. This week was one of those weeks. here are my hours for the week period. Note: End of paying week is Sunday. Sunday: 17.03 - 03.12 (10hrs 9mins) End of week and new clock-in cards. Monday: 17.07 - 03.19 (10hrs 12mins) (Note that there is only 7hrs 41mins between work periods) Tuesday: 11.00 - 04.09 (17hrs 9mins) (Only had 2 half hour breaks in 17 hours!) Wednesday: 17.10 - 01.29 (8hrs 19mins) Thursday: 17.09 - 02.56 (9hrs 47min) Friday: 20.06 - 03.16 (7hrs 10 mins) Saturday: 20.03 - 03.15 (7hrs 12mins) End 7 days in a row worked, one of the days was 17hrs long, and in total i worked 59hrs 49mins. There are a few things i would like to know. What is the legality of the hours. What am I owed and at what points am I due overtime? Can anyone work out my gross wages (I am on minimum wage of €8.65). I am eternally grateful if you can help me with this. Last edited by Danny Med; 06-02-2010 at 17:30. Reason: update

06-02-2010, 19:38	#3
brightspark Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 245 Adverts \| Friends	Hours of work are covered by the working time act of 1997 This is a short guide to the act http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/me...ingtimeact.pdf Not sure of your overtime entitlements, generally start at 1.5 times normal after 39 hours/week. BUT that depends on your employer. You have very odd start/finish times??? Most jobs pay on the quarter hour (usually if you are a couple of minutes late you loose the whole 15 minutes. Also you only get paid for complete 15 minutes of work, i.e. if you finish at 17.00 or 17.14 you wont get paid, but if you stay another minute until 17.15 you get paid for the 15 minutes.) Are you late starting work most days or are you arriving very early? Unfair as it sounds most employers penalise employees for being a couple of minutes late, but fail to reward them (in wages anyway) for being early. Without knowing what arrangement you have with your employer it is difficult to put a figure on how much pay you deserve. But I doubt it is 59hrs 49mins x 8.65 Euro. No requirement to be paid for breaks either! The working time act allows for variation so exceeding 48hrs in any given week is not considered illegal. You are supposed to have 11 hours rest between shifts, but again the act does allow for exceptions. Last edited by brightspark; 06-02-2010 at 19:43.

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06-02-2010, 19:30	#2
wmpdd3 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: kilkenny Posts: 1,278 Adverts \| Friends	Right.... Do you get time and a third for after 11pm? or is your pay always 8.65? If you have a contract, it will have a normal working week on it eventhough you are part-time. We'll take it you are on overtime after 39 hours. So: €8.65 x 39 = €337.35 €8.65 x 21 x 1.5= €272.47 =€609.82 before tax etc. Have a look here in relation to your working day/breaks: http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/me...ingtimeact.pdf If your on flat time for those hours I'd look at night work in supermarkets, starting rate would be at least €12.45 per hour including time at a third and you'd get your breaks as supermarkets are audited more often than the food and beverage industry (in my experience).

07-02-2010, 05:31	#4
Danny Med Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tipperary Posts: 6 Adverts \| Friends	Right I asked tonight, what my rate is, and it turns out i have no overtime rate, so i am on a complete flat rate for the whole 60 hours . so that's about €519 I also have no contract of employment or have signed anything to state that i work there, yet i recieve a payslip and pay taxes and prsi etc... so i asked for that tonight. I also asked for the p60 at last @wmpdd3 I am on a flat rate regardless of hours. i don't get any public holiday pay/unsociable hours premium. I work christmas eve, st. stephen's day and new years eve/day for flat rates :/. thank you that link is really helpful and clrearer than most ones that i've read. loads of new rules learned I totally agree the bartending industry is a lot less fair than supermarkets and the likes, and i wouldn't mind doing the night work. Like, it is tough enough because i am doing medicine in college as well as the weekend night time work. :/ @brightspark Thanks again for the link you know what they say about great minds.... and fools.... Yeah, it's flat rate all the way yeah i work in a night club and it is a late bar(2am finish), and we have to clean the bar too, which takes till about 3.30/4.00 most nights. The clock-in machine is 10mins fast xD sorry should have noted that. yeah we are payed by quarter hour and yeah we are unpiad for breaks yeah i read that in the link and it would be averaged over 4 months, not just a single week like i thought The thing is, is that he asked me to come in at 11am and i said yeah like a fool, because they were genuinely stuck and i am the only other person allowed in this certain bar and i wasn't aware of the 11hr guideline :/ i only got 2 hrs sleep that night and then had a 17 hr shift that day xD i was wrecked. Thanks for that help so far guys/girls

07-02-2010, 10:20	#5
brightspark Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 245 Adverts \| Friends	I have previously broken the 11hr rule myself and if circumstances required it I would do it again. The act allows for less than 11hrs if you make it up after. Dont think you are entitled to 60 hrs though? Allowing for the clock being fast and your employer compensating I expect it add up as follows. Sunday: 17.03 - 03.12 (17.00-03.02) = 10 Hrs (but that is a seperate week's pay) Monday: 17.07 - 03.19 (17.00-03.09) = 10 Hrs Tuesday: 11.00 - 04.09 (11.00-04.00) = 17 Hrs Wednesday: 17.10 - 01.29 (17.00-01.19) = 8.25 Hrs Thursday: 17.09 - 02.56 (17.00-02.46) = 9.75 Hrs Friday: 20.06 - 03.16 (20.00- 03.06) = 7 Hrs Saturday: 20.03 - 03.15 (20.00-03.05) = 7 Hrs Total for week = 59Hrs, less 6 x half hour breaks = 56Hrs = 484.40 Euro Gross

07-02-2010, 15:11	#6
Danny Med Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tipperary Posts: 6 Adverts \| Friends	Yeah i have broken it too last year when i finished at 4am and was asked to be in for 9am, and this happened numerous times. Yes i see where you are coming from there, i somehow doubt they reward us for being early too haha I will find out on thursday if they have done it this way. You see i am not sure, what way they calculate the wages, as in, do they do it to the nearest quarter per day or do they add up the hours of the week and then round to the nearest quarter....... i am guessing the former is cheaper for them, so it is prob per day :/ Thanks Can anyone tell me about pay rises and/or premium rates, or even link me to a good source?

07-02-2010, 21:17	#7
wmpdd3 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: kilkenny Posts: 1,278 Adverts \| Friends	Pay rises are not an entitlement, believe it not unless your employer abide by an agreed union pay scale. Same with premium pay, it you say you will work on sunday for flat rate then that's what you get unless your employer has an industry agreement that they abide by. The only exception is bank holidays. You can get double pay for working on a bank hol or a day off in lieu with in 1 month.