[road_high]

[QUOTE=mysterious;64026975]

Traffic on the N9 isn't that significant, I know your from the SE and I know you got your motorway but please.

I don't know cos I don't have the traffic figures to hand. Just from my own observations driving it weekly/daily, the old N9 between Carlow and Kilcullen was one hell of a busy single carriageway road.

don't waffle.

Please drop the condescending tone ta, you loose any respect I might have your argument/opinion.

[Tech3]

Originally Posted by mysterious

Traffic on the N9 isn't that significant, I know your from the SE and I know you got your motorway but please. don't waffle.

Mysterious you may be right with the AADT figures but considering the N9 was very poor many used the N11/M11 so the AADT will rise further once the whole motorway will be completed. Also how much less was it construct a WS2 over a HQDC at the time? Not much I would imagine and the road is future proofed for decades to come.

[Bards]

Originally Posted by tech2

Mysterious you may be right with the AADT figures but considering the N9 was very poor many used the N11/M11 so the AADT will rise further once the whole motorway will be completed. Also how much less was it construct a WS2 over a HQDC at the time? Not much I would imagine and the road is future proofed for decades to come.

Traffic between Kilkenny and Waterford will increase substantially once the M9 is complete. I know many people who say that once the road is complete they will travel more between the two centres for both business & pleasure. I have put off trips (and even canceled some) for as long as possible before I have to travel on the N9/N10 as it is one head-wrecking road

I'm sure Mfitzy has heard the same being said in Kilkenny and further afield

[Chris_533976]

I still think the overall question should be which should have gotten priority.

M20 or M9.

I say that M20 Mallow - Croom should have gotten priority (and been designed years ago)

Say build half the M9 and half the M20, then we'd all be better off.

The fact that the M9 is (nearly) done and the M20 hasnt been touched and wont be pre 2015 is disgraceful.

[Bards]

Originally Posted by Chris_533976

I still think the overall question should be which should have gotten priority.

M20 or M9.

I say that M20 Mallow - Croom should have gotten priority (and been designed years ago)

Say build half the M9 and half the M20, then we'd all be better off.

The fact that the M9 is (nearly) done and the M20 hasnt been touched and wont be pre 2015 is disgraceful.

so we'd end up with two half finished roads instead of one completly finished Inter-urban motorway - a typical Irish solution indeed

[road_high]

Originally Posted by tech2

Mysterious you may be right with the AADT figures but considering the N9 was very poor many used the N11/M11 so the AADT will rise further once the whole motorway will be completed. Also how much less was it construct a WS2 over a HQDC at the time? Not much I would imagine and the road is future proofed for decades to come.

Unfortunately we only have 09 figures for the N9 at Leighlinbridge (below) and Mullinavat.

Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
Daily Volume 14695 15776 16373 16662 17180 16979 16690

[Tech3]

Originally Posted by mfitzy

Unfortunately we only have 09 figures for the N9 at Leighlinbridge (below) and Mullinavat.

Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
Daily Volume 14695 15776 16373 16662 17180 16979 16690

I would expect AADT figures at Mullinavat to significantly increase maybe around the 20,000 mark.

[Chris_533976]

Originally Posted by Bards

so we'd end up with two half finished roads instead of one completly finished Inter-urban motorway - a typical Irish solution indeed

Having the 'road' finished here isnt totally relevant IMO. It would be better overall to have half of the M20 done (removing the dangerous Mallow - Croom bit) and half the M9 done (removing half the dangerous bit of that).

I agree that both need doing overall, but having one done with the other untouched AND on the long finger is daft.

[Amtmann]

Originally Posted by spacetweek

Furet, any chance of scanning it in for us?

Originally Posted by marmurr1916

Fair play Furet. Any chance anyone's going to scan and upload a copy to the web?

I would of course scan it, but I don't have easy access to a scanner, plus I'm preparing to move abroad for 5 months in two weeks' time, so I'm really busy at the moment. If no one has scanned it by the time I get back, I'll try to get it done - but that won't be until July at the earliest i'm afraid!

[wellbutty]

Yet another great thread hijacked by the "M20 should've been built over the M9" brigade. Lucky ye're not in a position of power or else AADT figures would be the only factor in justifying a road schmeme improvement. I drove up and down from Dublin a few times over the weekend, lethal car-breaking potholes that KK county council couldn't be arsed filling in (the location of the "Welcome to Waterford City" sign inside their boundary is far more important), the 19th century horse & carriage alignment, unbelievable width, awful drainage, numerous villages...give me a break lads and sing us a new one.

On topic, how many pages are in the document Furet? If there's not too many I'd scan it and post you back the original.

[murphaph]

Originally Posted by wellbutty

Yet another great thread hijacked by the "M20 should've been built over the M9" brigade.

I don't recall ever stating that before this thread, so I hope I'm not in this "brigade" you talk about, but it sort of jumps out at you, if you read the document from 1998 that is, that the N9 was never due to receive a motorway as traffic was to be sent along an upgradded N77 to the M8 and along the upgraded N25/N11 corridor but the FF "one for everyone in the audience" policies kicked in somewhere along the line. I'm happy the M9 will exist though, but it wasn't meant to, at least not before the M20.

Originally Posted by wellbutty

Lucky ye're not in a position of power or else AADT figures would be the only factor in justifying a road schmeme improvement. I drove up and down from Dublin a few times over the weekend, lethal car-breaking potholes that KK county council couldn't be arsed filling in (the location of the "Welcome to Waterford City" sign inside their boundary is far more important), the 19th century horse & carriage alignment, unbelievable width, awful drainage, numerous villages...give me a break lads and sing us a new one.

Apart from the sign thing, that could be the N20 you're talking about. You can't deny that the N20 was seen as a higher priority by the NRA than the southern end of the N9. THAT IS FACT according to this 1998 source. That's all we're talking about, how it's interesting that things can be influenced by politics and so on.

[wellbutty]

No murphaph I wasn't referring to you. I do accept the N20 is dire, as is the N24 by the way and plenty of others. The 1998 document recommends that the N20 be dualled by 2019, it's still on schedule isn't it? Yes the South East did benefit in the intervening period after being neglected since Irish independance. It's lucky for us all that the 1998 study wasn't implemented to the extent outlined in the document or else we'd end up with a lot more road downgrades than the N24 Fiddown/Piltown bypass. As Mfitzy said, "The M9 makes a complete job of road upgrades in the south east." The M20 will have its day, we'll have ours in May (assuming BAM come back from the Christmas holidays!).

[spacetweek]

Originally Posted by mysterious

None of the inter urbans had motorway capacity traffic. Bar the Nenagh to Limerick, Cork Fermoy and, Portlaoise to M7/M8 split and Adare N21. (based on 2015 levels)

2015 levels estimated in 1998 are wrong and have probably been surpassed already.

The current motorways were planned based on revised figures which anticipated motorway being needed along those routes. Hence, motorways.

[Amtmann]

Plus of course AADT was not the sole consideration: also important were

• town bypass provision
• the creation of better road geometries
• the removal of multiple private accesses
• the elimination of the multitude of at-grade junctions and cross-roads
• the provision of better over-taking capacity

[Zoney]

Originally Posted by wellbutty

The M20 will have its day, we'll have ours in May (assuming BAM come back from the Christmas holidays!).

Not if the Greens have their way, whereas as you say the M9 is a done deal now.

So excuse a bit of agitation in favour of the M20 if you please - I should note that I have nevertheless argued the valid reasons for the M9 (certainly north of N10, but given the amount the existing road inhibits travel, I argued for south of that also) on a number of occasions.

The N20 is at least of similar importance I would argue to the N9, and I would suggest similarly at present inhibits commerce and is detrimental to safe travel.

BTW, this map in fairness does seem to prioritise routes solely on the basis of their state at the time and traffic volume. Those are of course major considerations, but I consider the interurbans first argument as not without merit given the strategic importance and travel time. Nevertheless, it would have been preferable had the originally promised date of 2006 been held to, in order that other routes (such as M20 and things like Newlands and Arklow-Rathnew) could have got a look-in. As far as I can see, the slow start to the interurbans was mainly from artificially limited go-ahead of projects that were artificially small, in order to allow domestic construction industry (FOFF) to gear up to handle most of the jobs. Given the dead end that was jobs-wise, it made no sense bar lining certain people's pockets.