[DWCommuter]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Jeez, if numbers keep going like that you'll be needing the rail service to Achill reinstated but you'll have to wait until we get the Burma Road done first.

Probably bigger numbers now than when it was a railway.

There's money in tourism once we realise that tourism is strictly out of bounds for tacky over priced Celtic Tiger Hotels and ****ty attractions propped up by grants and infected by self indulgence.

This Greenway idea is fantastic and as a railway fan I'd rather see it done (incorporating the lines history to some degree) than leaving it to the Wizard of Oz whims of WOT or the careless disregard of locals. If this opinion is interpreted as some sort of agenda against WOT then it only highlights a bizarre paranoia amongst WRC supporters.

Personally I don't think the WRC has anything to offer, but any initiative that preserves the alignment and offers a potential economic boost to the region should be embraced a lot quicker than the Celtic Tiger influenced railway demand from people who know absolutely nothing about either railways or reality.

[westtip]

Originally Posted by DWCommuter

Probably bigger numbers now than when it was a railway.

There's money in tourism once we realise that tourism is strictly out of bounds for tacky over priced Celtic Tiger Hotels and ****ty attractions propped up by grants and infected by self indulgence.

This Greenway idea is fantastic and as a railway fan I'd rather see it done (incorporating the lines history to some degree) than leaving it to the Wizard of Oz whims of WOT or the careless disregard of locals. If this opinion is interpreted as some sort of agenda against WOT then it only highlights a bizarre paranoia amongst WRC supporters.

Personally I don't think the WRC has anything to offer, but any initiative that preserves the alignment and offers a potential economic boost to the region should be embraced a lot quicker than the Celtic Tiger influenced railway demand from people who know absolutely nothing about either railways or reality.

DW thanks for that, indeed I am thinking now Greenway the whole line from Sligo to Athenry cos in reality having seen the latest news about another 15 billion needed for the banks, we all know now this project is not going to happen. I also agree that there is a big opp to really make a big thing of the railway heritage and get this done properly - it could be a massive tourist attraction, anyway I am convinced the tide is turning on this one.

I've still got no figures on usage of the Ennis - Athenry section - anyone been on it of late. Irish Rail sent me an email saying they will only give out consolidated figures as separate figures for each section of the line would be "commercially sensitive" as they were shouting from the rooftops about how successful the line was after it had opened for a month (in April last year) and we have not heard a dickie bird since it would seem to suggest the restaurant theory has kicked in. - New restaurant opens everyone tries it - then interest wains and wains and wains until the inevitable happens.

Incidently they said 110,000 journies were made on the Limerick - Galway route last year - in line with expectations - what would the guestimate of that volume be for

a) Limerick - Ennis journies
b) Athenry - Galway journies
c) The bit in the middle journies to either limerick or Galway.

The last anecdotal report I read on this thread was pretty dire for item (c).

BTW any idea when the transport policy will be published of various parties for the election - all lies anyway as we know from the past.

[westtip]

I have been having a number of emails back and forth with Irish Rail and the DOT about the usage figures on phase 1 of WRC. Of course jsut a civic interest to find out how success this "vital piece of infrastructure" is delivering on its service levels.

Irish Rail (IR) will only give an aggregate figure for the entire line (ie Ennis/Limerick commuting volume is now apparently all part of the success of the WRC phase 1), I have been informed the line - Limerick - Galway aggregate figure for usage in 2010 was 110,000
I quote from email received:

Total passenger journeys between Limerick and Galway for 2010 were 110,000. This in line with predictions

We do not have any broken down figures available

In April 2009 IR and WOT were shouting from the roof top about the massive uptake .....ahem so where are we now the novelty has worn off.

When challenged to provide information under the Freedom of information act I have been told are but IR are not covered under the FOI therefore we don't have to release the figures.

If the incremental volume on the line is say 30,000 journies a year - and this is a wild guess and my gut feeling is that it is very optimistic based on anecdotal evidence.

With 5 upward and 5 downward trains a day - over 360 days a year thats 3,600 trains a year, divided into 30,000 = 8.33 passengers per train on average. Of course in the rush hour there may be 12 people on a train and in the slower off peak times 4 people on a train - one thing is sure everyone will find a seat!

The reluctance and somewhat obstructive stance by IR to release the figures on the basis of "commercial sensitivity" is perhaps not as baffling as it might seem - they simply don't want the truth out there - this is the greatest white elephant ever built in Ireland and they don't want to have that much egg on their face.

[wild handlin]

Just an observation...
Why was there no "fuss" when Limerick-Ennis was mooted at being re-opened? From the day the line re-opened it's linespeed was slower than the N18, yet I don't seem to recall any outbursts here on boards at the time.

Sometimes I recon a select few on here for whatever reason are determined to see it fail...interestingly the criticism soon turned into a quiet whimper when it was announced in the first few months that the patronage surpassed expectations. Remember how many said "after the first week it will be empty!!"

Anyway, carry on...

[westtip]

Originally Posted by wild handlin

Just an observation...
Why was there no "fuss" when Limerick-Ennis was mooted at being re-opened? From the day the line re-opened it's linespeed was slower than the N18, yet I don't seem to recall any outbursts here on boards at the time.

Sometimes I recon a select few on here for whatever reason are determined to see it fail...interestingly the criticism soon turned into a quiet whimper when it was announced in the first few months that the patronage surpassed expectations. Remember how many said "after the first week it will be empty!!"

Anyway, carry on...

Ennis limerick made sense as a commuter branch line; the extension further north does not. There has been no such announcements about the patronage of the WRC north of Ennis surpassing expectations - yes after the first month numbers were seemingly good - but nothing since and anecdotal evidence shows poor patronage. It has nothing to do with speeds against the N18 - its about speeds versus a donkey and cart. The ludicrous claims made about the need for this line are simply mind boggling, it was however built - and the MOT clearly stated in May 09 and again in March 10 that the patronage and usage of this section of the line will be one of the key deciding factors on whether phase 2 and 3 takes place, this is why these figures need to be out in the open. If it is as WOT claimed it would be a stunning success then lets see the evidence - it has been up and running almost a year - so how many regular commuters does it have, how many people are using it at peak times, how many of the passengers are fare paying passengers. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask these questions. IR won't release the figures as they claim they are commercially sensitive. I am making an assumption and I might be wrong but the reason they won't release them is because they are frankly to embarrassed to admit abject failure.

[DWCommuter]

Originally Posted by westtip

Ennis limerick made sense as a commuter branch line; the extension further north does not. There has been no such announcements about the patronage of the WRC north of Ennis surpassing expectations - yes after the first month numbers were seemingly good - but nothing since and anecdotal evidence shows poor patronage. It has nothing to do with speeds against the N18 - its about speeds versus a donkey and cart. The ludicrous claims made about the need for this line are simply mind boggling, it was however built - and the MOT clearly stated in May 09 and again in March 10 that the patronage and usage of this section of the line will be one of the key deciding factors on whether phase 2 and 3 takes place, this is why these figures need to be out in the open. If it is as WOT claimed it would be a stunning success then lets see the evidence - it has been up and running almost a year - so how many regular commuters does it have, how many people are using it at peak times, how many of the passengers are fare paying passengers. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask these questions. IR won't release the figures as they claim they are commercially sensitive. I am making an assumption and I might be wrong but the reason they won't release them is because they are frankly to embarrassed to admit abject failure.

Just ask them for the 2009 figures for Ennis - Limerick. Do the maths and hey presto! At least it would provide some idea.

[DWCommuter]

Originally Posted by wild handlin

..interestingly the criticism soon turned into a quiet whimper when it was announced in the first few months that the patronage surpassed expectations....

Without specific figures that announcement and therefore your referencing of it, is about as useful as a fart in a hurricane.

[westtip]

Originally Posted by DWCommuter

Just ask them for the 2009 figures for Ennis - Limerick. Do the maths and hey presto! At least it would provide some idea.

DW I have - and they are refusing to release them! Anyone else have them.

[wild handlin]

Ok.... Observation no.2...

Seeing as Ennis - Limerick made economic sence to re-open does that mean that Tuam - Galway makes economic sence? It's based on the same principle; you're linking a commuter town to a city...

[DWCommuter]

Originally Posted by wild handlin

Ok.... Observation no.2...

Seeing as Ennis - Limerick made economic sence to re-open does that mean that Tuam - Galway makes economic sence? It's based on the same principle; you're linking a commuter town to a city...

Technically Ennis - Limerick was never closed as some Limerick intercity services were regularly extended there in the 90s. So it was more a case of starting new passenger services. On top of that the track and signalling weren't renewed to any great degree. It was a poor service in the beginning that cost very little to implement and was gradually built up over the years in terms of investment.

And for the record I don't think anyone here actually said it made "economic sense". A comparison between the Ennis scenario and Tuam is not like with like and merely grasping at the "commuter" angle.

[DWCommuter]

Originally Posted by westtip

DW I have - and they are refusing to release them! Anyone else have them.

Thats shocking. I know they have the figures for Limerick - Ennis. Whack off an FOI request and **** them!

[Judgement Day]

DW and westtip saw this and thought of you.



http://www.iwrsim.graymacimage.com/iwrsimiwr.html

[mgmt]

Originally Posted by DWCommuter

Just ask them for the 2009 figures for Ennis - Limerick. Do the maths and hey presto! At least it would provide some idea.

PASSENGER TRAFFIC on the first phase of the Western Rail Corridor has exceeded expectations, Iarnród Éireann said yesterday.

A spokeswoman for the company said 16,000 journeys were made in the first month of the new Limerick-Galway service, which has been restored at a cost of €106.5 million.

The Iarnród Éireann spokeswoman said: “The 16,000 passenger journeys recorded are on top of the existing 14,400 monthly journeys on the Limerick-Ennis service, meaning the through route has seen over 30,000 passenger journeys in its first month.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...269640188.html

14,400*12 = 172,800 (limerick -ennis)

but...

Total passenger journeys between Limerick and Galway for 2010 were 110,000. This in line with predictions

We do not have any broken down figures available

WTF


Haha I just read the CBA for this line. Someone should be sacked for approving this disaster.

http://www.transport21.ie/Publicatio...onomic_CBA.PDF

[Judgement Day]

And this pic of the Burma Road from IRN here: http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/...len-in-Campile

[westtip]

Originally Posted by DWCommuter

Thats shocking. I know they have the figures for Limerick - Ennis. Whack off an FOI request and **** them!

I would send and FOI in fact I did this is the response I got from Barry kenny:

Dear XXXXX,


Thank you for your e-mail.

For your information, Iarnród Éireann is not subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

I note your request to the Department of Transport under the Freedom of Information Act.


Regards,

Barry Kenny,

Manager, Corporate Communications,

Iarnród Éireann

The truth they want to hide.

Originally Posted by mgmt

14,400*12 = 172,800 (limerick -ennis)

but...



WTF


Haha I just read the CBA for this line. Someone should be sacked for approving this disaster.

http://www.transport21.ie/Publicatio...onomic_CBA.PDF

The 16,000 journeys a month press release last April was made a few days after the line opened. Quite ridiculous - the figures I recently got are for all of last year - so if you take out the initial surge blip in April last year the 110,00 is probably over the top.

I just wish IR would issue the figures, they won't, so I guess we will have to survey the line and aggregate the figures up for an annual usage figure.