[invincibleirish]

Originally Posted by SeaSlacker

Guys, the money is spent. It would be more expensive to do anythign other than set up the service.

Money is an ongoing issue, even the most optimistic of forecasts suggests that the WRC will require a large yearly subvention. If IE have to deal with reductions from Government then do they continue to financially support a line which is frequently waterlogged and with probable low patronage (how many passengers currently between Ennis-Limerick?) or do they cut back on services elsewhere?.

[Sponge Bob]

Originally Posted by invincibleirish

patronage

Dublin word, in Galway we "Ride" trains rather than patronageamate them.

[crocro]

Originally Posted by SeaSlacker

Guys, the money is spent. It would be more expensive to do anything other than set up the service.

106m is spent. this is a sunk cost and we will never see it again.

However, the predicted annual operating loss of €3m for 100k passengers has only just started. It would be less expensive never to operate the service at all and invest the 3m a year in some other aspect of public transport in the west such as bus or bike lanes in Limerick or Galway.

[foggy_lad]

when this route starts to operate at a loss initially who is going to foot the bill for the inevitable bus trasfers whenever there is a few days of rain? also it can only be assumed that the staff servicing this route will still be reporting for work at their usual stations and for their usual trains and will be paid even when their trains do not run due to flooding? or will they all be reallocated to other duties while the line is unusable?

[MYOB]

Originally Posted by SeaSlacker

Well, think return on investment. If you run trains, you get *some* return on investment. if you don't run trains, you get *no* return on investment. And a lot of people who watched a station being built just down the road from them being told "f*ck off, you don't matter".

The line will lose money. That is not a return on investment.

Also, by the time your CAO-taking mate is ready to go to college, the Gort bypass will be open. He's going to have to get used to taking rail replacement buses as is, so that'll be a help...

[corktina]

that was a little premature of him wasnt it? Not knowing whether or not there would be a very early train running. To get from Limerick station to UL or LIT by 9am would mean you'd have to arrive there a bit before 8.30 I guess.

I think the point being made is that sometimes you have to cut your losses and bail out of a project once the point is reached where it is obvious that it isnt going to work.In the WRC case, if buses and drivers have to be hired every winter for months on end, this drives a coach and horses through any hopes of viability. Its not a straight bustitution, IE will still have to pay its staff to sit idle and maintain the rolling stock etc.

[SeaSlacker]

Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"

3 million? that's all? you're banging the bells over 3 million being spent on the West? That's 6 banker's salaries, if not less. That's a few miles of motorway. It's sure less than what Aer Arann gets to sub their domestic routes

Get your priorities straight people. Or do the honest thing and officially set up the support group you guys obviously are a member of. There's enough of ye to start the campaign. Go on, write a letter to the Irish times. What are ye gonna call yourselves, eh?

I'm sick to the back teeth of you people. Always *whack* it shouldn't be built *whack* it shouldn't be built *whack* it shouldn't be built whack* it shouldn't be built whack* it shouldn't be built whack* it shouldn't be built *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to not run trains *whack* they need to not run trains *whack* they need to not run trains

and soon it'll be *whack* they need stop the trains *whack* they need stop the trains *whack* they need stop the trains *whack* they need stop the trains.

This is going hamsterwheel. I'm just the first guy to stick around and say "no". Not because I beleive that West on Track are right, but because the boardsies of South Galway/North Clare are going to have issues with the line when it's open, and being told "f*ck off from C&T, take a bus" isn't acceptable.

[Calina]

I am sick to the teeth of handing out bans and infractions in this thread. When I say sick to the teeth I mean seething with fury that a second/third/fourth chance at this subject is being routinely abused.

If I have to issue one more ban or infraction I will seriously consider closing the thread again.

[corktina]

[QUOTE=SeaSlacker;63992431]Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"

3 million? that's all? you're banging the bells over 3 million being spent on the West? unquote

Well i dont think you need a crystal ball to see the problems that arent going away with flooding.

I am not concerned with spending 3 million on the Wesht..Im concerned at BADLY spending 3 million on the it ad infinitum. So I think EITHER we should pull the plug OR spend more to make it a proper line stopping in sensible places and travelling at decent speeds and sort out the flooding issue. In the current economic climate, Id say the former is more likely.

[crocro]

Originally Posted by SeaSlacker

Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"

Well there is the strategic rail review, 2003, the Faber Maunsell/Irish Rail demand predictions and the Goodbody review of the Irish Rail analysis.

3 million? that's all?

That's just the operational loss, the capital costs are double that. If Irish rail makes its predicted 100k passengers in year 1 that will be 30 quid per journey operational cost. A daily commuter would be subsidised 300 euro per week. The state can't pay people 300 quid a week to take a train to work. It does not make any sense.

It's sure less than what Aer Arann gets to sub their domestic routes

Maybe the regional airport subsidies should also be abolished.

Get your priorities straight people.

the priority should be to generate the largest number of public transport trips for the lowest amount of money per trip.

[DoWhatThouWilt]

Originally Posted by Calina

I am sick to the teeth of handing out bans and infractions in this thread. When I say sick to the teeth I mean seething with fury that a second/third/fourth chance at this subject is being routinely abused.

If I have to issue one more ban or infraction I will seriously consider closing the thread again.

Here's an idea then. How about not behaving like a frustrated Stasi agent waiting for the East German Marxist People's Party to reform and take back control?

Might cause you less stess and prevent the mass exodus form this forum the mods have been directly responsible for in recent months.

Just a thought... You do realise Calina, that George Orwell's 1984 was a fictional warning and not a blueprint for a perfect society?

[Sponge Bob]

Originally Posted by DoWhatThouWilt

Here's an idea then.

Is that you again Nostradamus ???

[Chris_533976]

Originally Posted by DoWhatThouWilt

Here's an idea then. How about not behaving like a frustrated Stasi agent waiting for the East German Marxist People's Party to reform and take back control?

This thread had been in the gutter for ages but when the mods ban you just to let you know I'm going to shamelessly steal this and use it on other forums

[BluntGuy]

Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"
3 million? that's all? you're banging the bells over 3 million being spent on the West? That's 6 banker's salaries, if not less. That's a few miles of motorway. It's sure less than what Aer Arann gets to sub their domestic routes

It's none of these things. Subsidising Aer Arann would actually be cheaper! "Banker" is too vague a term, and 3 million wouldn't even buy you 1 mile of motorway let alone "a few".

Nobody has crystal ball predictions to say EXACTLY what will happen. But the evidence provided above by crocro as well as Irish Rail's own Cost-Benefit Analysis clearly demonstrate it is highly likely the project will need an unacceptably high annual subvention.

I'm all for improved transport in the west... but ultimately the line will most likely be closed down, unless its alignment is dramatically improved. That can be done in phases in the future if need be, but it is the ONLY way (barring some sort of enormous population explosion) that the service will be viable in the medium to long-term.

I'm sick to the back teeth of you people.

I admit this thread can sometimes get a little repititive, tiresome and gutterish, but geez, nobody has tied you down to the desk with metal chains mate lol

People are going to give their opinions and it just happens most people seem to be of a similar one.

[ardmacha]

The Western line will require a subsidy. The value for this subsidy should be maximised by privatising the line from Athenry to Rosslare to a lean operation which has a vested interest in trying to get as much business as possible by good timetabling etc. There are good precedents in other countries for lightly used lines being run by regional operators.