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06-10-2009, 19:17   #1
Hazys
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Race Relations in Ireland

Nearly every second thead in Humanities and After Hours has something to do with Race or Foreigners. I'm a bit suprised by this, since Ireland has a fairly low percent of our population are of a different race or nationality. Therefore the majority of the people who contribute to these threads would have very little interaction with a person of a different race but seem compled to talk about it or talk about how it is not a big deal for black people to be racist towards white people while the other way around is criminal!

10-15 years ago it would have been very rare to see a black person walking down the street but now its pretty normal. I remember when i was in 2ndry school there was one asian kid in my year and 2 black kids the year below and that was it in the whole school. But in my younger brother's 4th year class 5 out of 25 are of different race.

Has the quick change of very few people to some people of different race caused our immaturity to foreigners? and in another 10-15 years will be be more used to it as our kids go to school with and become friends with other kids, etc, do we become more mature?

Or are we as a nation of Irish more racist than other countries?

Some countries seriously struggle with race relations while others seem to have blended the different cultures well into their indiginous culture. How do we see Ireland handling race in 15 years? I'd like to think we are capable of integrating different cultures well because unlike most countries foreigners came to Ireland on their own terms not tru slavery and colonilization.

Please note I'm talking about the minority of people, not the entire nation is racist.
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06-10-2009, 19:38   #2
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The whole race thing annoys me. I was talking to a senior detective the other day who was out at some check point they had set up looking for something they had been given a tip off about and as such were stopping every car, he said he stopped a car that a black gentleman was driving and asked him the usual questions where are you heading tonight is this your vehicle blah blah at which point the guy flipped out at him and said the only reason he was stopped was becuase he was black despite evry other car passing through being stopped and accused him of being racist. I know this detective well and I can tell you he is anything but racist.

You cant say anything to anybody who is of a different ethnicity without been accused of being racist, If people stopped bull****ing on and on about it it would be as big of an issue.

I can only hope that it dosnt get as bad here as it is in America where alot (not all but alot) of African Americans in my opinion have a major chip on their shoulder, murderers have been released on the whole "he is only here in court today because he is black" crap. And the way they shi*e on about 800 yrs of slavery and poverty, the Irish had the same and we dont go on about it at every given opportunity. Another thing is how come when white people shout "white power" its racist but when black people shout "black power its not"

I am ready for the onslaught of fellow board users disagreeing with me so I will finish on this note. I am not a racist I welcome every person from every corner of the world to Ireland with open arms regardless of color, nationality or religion. But don't come here and call me a racist if I disagree with you over something, or you jump the que in the supermarket and I give you a piece of my mind dont call me a racist. Racism works both ways YES there is racism in Ireland like every country but I feel some people use it as an excuse to get what they want.

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06-10-2009, 21:34   #3
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Seriously Arthur you post is BS.

Im not a racist but..."all black people use racism as a cop out", "why can't we shout out White Power but black people can shout out 'Black Power'", and from the other thread "Irish people suffered more from slavery than africans but we seem to put up with it and got over it, while African Americans still have a chip on their shoulder"

This is exactly what I'm talking about...you have one story true or not of a black person using racism as a cop out, i dont know how many black people you have seen shouting 'Black Power' up and down Irish city streets but im guessing its not a lot, 'Irish people suffered more from slavery than africans' FFS

How do any of these stories (a black person getting off murder in a country 3000 miles from you because he's black)affect your day to day? why do you need to make an issue of this when it doesn't occur in this country? Your rant had nothing to do with my orginal post but you saw a reason to go on a "I'm not a racist but..." rant, why?

Last edited by Hazys; 06-10-2009 at 21:38.
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06-10-2009, 21:59   #4
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Where does it say that every black person uses racism as a cop out I said some do. Yes Irish people did suffer as much do a bit of research on it before you totally discredit it. I have more storys and personal ones at that, as well just last week I was accused of being a racist because I didn't give my black taxi driver a tip (I don't give any taxi drivers tips black or white). You say Irish people have to be more mature towards people of different races and nationalities, I agree but it is never going to happen when ordinary everyday people are accused of being racists at every given moment.

Take 2 kids in school if a white child is bulling an another white child its bulling, if a white child is bulling a child of a different race, color or creed there would be a whole race issue made of it. The point of my post was to say if there was less emphasis put on race it wouldn be as big a deal.

No I have seen no black people going around the streets of Ireland shouting black power and I never said I did I if you re-read my post refering to the US.

Look I am not going to bother giving anymore of a response to you. Its my opinion and I am entitled to it whether you think its bs or not.
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06-10-2009, 22:18   #5
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Originally Posted by ArthurGuinness View Post
Where does it say that every black person uses racism as a cop out I said some do You're whole post blames black people for racism, you put no blame on anybody else. Yes Irish people did suffer as much do a bit of research on it before you totally discredit it. Id like to see these facts and figures of the millions of Irish slaves in the carribean and the large irish-carribbean communites that evolved from it I have more storys and personal ones at that, as well just last week I was accused of being a racist LOL because I didn't give my black taxi driver a tip (I don't give any taxi drivers tips black or white). You say Irish people have to be more mature towards people of different races and nationalities, I agree but it is never going to happen when ordinary everyday people are accused of being racists at every given moment.

Take 2 kids in school if a white child is bulling an another white child its bulling, if a white child is bulling a child of a different race, color or creed there would be a whole race issue made of it. Again how frequent is this in Ireland? Why does it bother you when it really doesnt happen all that often in Ireland? The point of my post was to say if there was less emphasis put on race it wouldn be as big a deal.

No I have seen no black people going around the streets of Ireland shouting black power and I never said I did I if you re-read my post refering to the US. Again why does something happening to a black person 3000 miles away from you, makes you jump to conclusions that it happens here?

Look I am not going to bother giving anymore of a response to you. Its my opinion and I am entitled to it whether you think its bs or not. Your entitled to your opinion, but I want to know why you feel so strongly about Black people getting away with racism in Ireland and in the US?
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06-10-2009, 22:36   #6
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Funny you never mentioned any where in any of your replies what I said in my last paragraph of my original post. also our comment on me totally blaming black people for racism is bull**** again if you re-read my post you will see where its say if PEOPLE didnt make such a fuss over "racism" it wouldnt be as big a deal. Also note where I say YES there is racism is Ireland. Racism isn't all a one sided game it comes from both sides in many different ways thats the point I was trying to get across. They should just rename this site arguments.ie I am not going to even entertain you anymore good luck.

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06-10-2009, 22:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazys View Post
Therefore the majority of the people who contribute to these threads would have very little interaction with a person of a different race but seem compled to talk about it
It does not take to be an astronaut to talk about the solar system, right?

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Originally Posted by Hazys View Post
Has the quick change of very few people to some people of different race caused our immaturity to foreigners?
The keyword here is "quick", IMHO mentality of homo sapiens
evolves slower than globalization and migration it entails.

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Originally Posted by Hazys View Post
Or are we as a nation of Irish more racist than other countries?
Although I am white, basing on experiences from other countries
I lived so far, I'd say you are dealing well with racism.

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Originally Posted by Hazys View Post
others seem to have blended the different cultures well into their indiginous culture.
As above, some cultures were in it for ages,
some face it only for last few years.
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06-10-2009, 23:00   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurGuinness View Post
You cant say anything to anybody who is of a different ethnicity without been accused of being racist
I never understand what statements like that mean

Obviously you can say something to someone of a different ethnicity without being accused of being a racist, if you said "Hello" to a Kenyan you aren't going to be accused of racism.

This types of statement tend to be used to justify something that may have been pretty racist.

There certainly is cases, some famous, of people taking something wrongly, out of ignorance or a desire to feel persecuted. The most famous example I can think of is the Washington woman who claimed racist abuse because her supervisor used the word "niggardly", which anyone with grasp of English knows has nothing to do with the slang for negro.

But equally the charge "you can't say anything these days..." is often used right after something particularly offensive and stereotypical, like Bill O'Reilly saying how he can't get over how having dinner in a black restaurant was just like having dinner in a white restaurant.

O'Reilly obviously meant this to be some sort of compliment, but it was ridiculous patronising and self serving, like someone saying how impressive Obama is at speaking.

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Originally Posted by ArthurGuinness View Post
Another thing is how come when white people shout "white power" its racist but when black people shout "black power its not"
Because most of the time when you hear someone shouting "white power" they are part of a white supremacy group.

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where alot (not all but alot) of African Americans in my opinion have a major chip on their shoulder
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Originally Posted by ArthurGuinness View Post
I am not a racist
For someone who isn't a racist you seem to have very particular ideas about large groups of people based on their ethnicity.

Or did you not mean your comments to single out a particular group? Do you accept that a lot of white Americans have chips on their shoulders as well, and having a chip on your shoulder has nothing to do with your skin colour, and everything to do with the specific instance of the person?
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06-10-2009, 23:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurGuinness View Post
if you re-read my post you will see where its say if PEOPLE didnt make such a fuss over "racism" it wouldnt be as big a deal.
By "PEOPLE" do you mean the victims of racism?
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06-10-2009, 23:33   #10
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Quote:
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I never understand what statements like that mean

Obviously you can say something to someone of a different ethnicity without being accused of being a racist, if you said "Hello" to a Kenyan you aren't going to be accused of racism.
No what I ment by this was exactly what I said earlier a Garda at a checkpoint stopping a person of different ethnicity simpling doing his job and being called a rasict for it.

I mean me going home in a taxi asking the driver how much I owe him giving him the money him saying "what no tip" to which I replied "no, sorry no tip" to which he replied "racist"

I mean when I am standing in a lunchtime que at centra and a person of differnt ethnicity jumps the line and I say to him "eh there is a que you know" I shouldn't then get a litney by the said individual saying the only reason you are saying somthing to me is because I am black you a are a racist.


RACE SHOULD NOT FACTOR IN ANY OF THESE SITUATIONS! I didn't make any of them an issue of race.


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someone who isn't a racist you seem to have very particular ideas about large groups of people based on their ethnicity
Where once did I use any derogatory remarks towards any person of another race. I said black people use the race card alot and in my opinion they do. I am not a racist and personally I couldn't really care if anyone thinks I am. I am the type of person who would go out of his way to help some regardless of race, age, sex, or religion. I have many friends from many different cultures and I see them all equally.


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By "PEOPLE" do you mean the victims of racism?
No by people I mean everyone. You, me, everybody. Especially the people I mentioned above the taxi driver, the guy at the check point and the guy in the que, none of the above things that happened had any baring on race, yet they turned it around that way. They were being treated the very same way that everybody else would have been. People like this are putting chips on other peoples shoulders and creating more tension

Last edited by ArthurGuinness; 06-10-2009 at 23:39.
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07-10-2009, 09:57   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazys View Post
Nearly every second thead in Humanities and After Hours has something to do with Race or Foreigners. I'm a bit suprised by this, since Ireland has a fairly low percent of our population are of a different race or nationality. Therefore the majority of the people who contribute to these threads would have very little interaction with a person of a different race but seem compled to talk about it or talk about how it is not a big deal for black people to be racist towards white people while the other way around is criminal!
Whatever about After Hours (stay away, tbh), why are you so surprised to see threads relating to race issues in Humanities? It's the natural home for discussion of such things.

As for people having very little interaction with a person of a different race, that's completely subjective. Maybe you don't, but I'm sure loads of people here deal with a multitude of races in work or other situations.

fwiw, I also think you were somewhat disingenuous in misquoting ArthurGuinness' comments as applying to everyone for dramatic effect.
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07-10-2009, 10:25   #12
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RACE SHOULD NOT FACTOR IN ANY OF THESE SITUATIONS! I didn't make any of them an issue of race.
...
I said black people use the race card alot and in my opinion they do.
Do you not see the issue here?

Why make this about the race of the person and then lump people together, rather than simply about the individuals being a**holes? You complain that race shouldn't be a factor in any of these situations, and yet then make it about race.

If you had said no tip to the taxi driver and he had said "prick" you probably would have gone that taxi drive was an a-hole.

But because the taxi driver was black and make a comment about race you start forming a stereotypical view that "black people use the race card alot".

If the driver had been white and said you were cheap would you be thinking that white people use the cheap card a lot?

Instead of individual nasty people who happen to be black, you make this about black people in general. Because a black person was nasty to you and unfairly called you a racist that is not a reflection on black people. It is a reflection on the individual person who happens to be black. White people are a-holes as well.

To go from individual cases of black people being nasty to an assumption about black people as a group, as you have done by thinking that black people use the race card "a lot", is doing the very thing you are giving out about.

Some black people are not nice people. Some white people are not nice people. This is not a reflection on other black or white people.

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No by people I mean everyone. You, me, everybody. Especially the people I mentioned above the taxi driver, the guy at the check point and the guy in the que, none of the above things that happened had any baring on race, yet they turned it around that way.
Has it occured to you that perhaps they were just nasty people?

I really don't see how you get from these incidents to saying that people shouldn't "make a fuss" over racism?

Are you suggesting that most cases of racism are in fact fake?

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They were being treated the very same way that everybody else would have been. People like this are putting chips on other peoples shoulders and creating more tension
I agree, but why should I or someone else, therefore not make a fuss about racism?
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07-10-2009, 12:28   #13
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I do agree with ArthurG in his point that there's one rule for black people and another for white people in some cases.
Like look at the mobo awards, if we had an all white awards it would be seen as racist.
At the BET awards when Jamie Foxx referred to Michael Jackson as 'ours' because he was black, now if Madonna died and a white person said she was 'ours' there would be uproar.

These double standards are a cause of racism and a divide i think.
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07-10-2009, 12:28   #14
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Someone very close to me works in security, in the retail sector. He has been doing this for years. He has NEVER arrested a non-white shoplifter without being accused of racism. It is the standard response.

People on this thread can talk out their arses all day long but the reality is that this happens and it happens every day. If they’ve any doubt about it there’s a very easy way to clarify that for themselves: Take a job for a few weeks in the Irish retail security sector.

To accuse someone of racism where there has been none is obviously an unacceptable character slur; but in fact, I think those crying 'racism' for spurious reasons like this are doing the greatest injustice to those who genuinely experience this dehumanising form of discrimination. They detract credibility from the genuine cases that truly deserve to be listened to and heard. Every heard the story about the boy who cried wolf?
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07-10-2009, 14:19   #15
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Someone very close to me works in security, in the retail sector. He has been doing this for years. He has NEVER arrested a non-white shoplifter without being accused of racism. It is the standard response.

People on this thread can talk out their arses all day long but the reality is that this happens and it happens every day.
Not sure anyone is denying that.

I imagine when the security guard arrests a white shoplifter they say that the guard is picking on them or singling them out for some other reason (I once say a skanger kid shouting blue murder that the security guard in Burger King was "touching him", as the security guard was kicking him out for drinking). Anything to make an argument or to avoid responsibility.

The thing is though the security guard probably doesn't go "Tut, white people!"

The issue is that one shouldn't let a black person (or anyone else) making fake racism claims cloud ones judgement about black people in general. That is in itself racism.
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