[Permabear]

Originally Posted by nesf

Seriously, ex-PD voters and Cóir voters are two extremely different breeds. I don't think anyone with any knowledge of both groups would worry about Cóir filling the PD's niche.

Exactly.

Given that the term "far-right" can apply to economic liberals as well as to social conservatives, it is too vague a descriptor to be meaningful.

On the economic front, I would argue that the seeming economic liberalism of the last decade was merely an illusion. During the boom years, the allegedly "right-wing" Fianna Fail/PD government enlarged and enriched the public sector to insane proportions, poured umpteen billions into the black holes of public heath care and education, and increased welfare at an implausible rate. We now have 85,000 more public servants than we did in 1999, and a public wage bill that has risen by €6 billion a year over the past decade. Unemployment benefits have risen by €80 a week since 2003. Right-wing? Hardly. A genuinely economically liberal government would have reduced the size of the public sector, opened the education and health markets to vibrant private competition, and weaned long-term welfare dependents away from the public trough. But they didn't do that—and now we are in a right old mess because the revenue no longer exists to fund the government's fiscal recklessness.

Those who argue that Ireland is becoming more socially conservative perhaps don't recall the days when it was still in the iron grip of the Catholic Church. It's not really all that long ago that victims of domestic violence could not divorce their attackers; that a family needed the Supreme Court's permission to take a raped child abroad for an abortion; that students were being arrested at their universities for the crime of handing out condoms. It's nothing like that anymore, at least.

[Lame Lantern]

The progressive democrats saw their best results in elections prior to 1997 when the party (largely guided by O'Malley, Cox and Harney) was formed and sent to the Dáil on a ticket of comparative social liberalism on economic moderation. Prior to that, Fianna Fáil (our right wing party) kept taxes (particularly corporate tax) at an alarmingly high rate and funneled money into the public sector and small farming communities. This is not the behaviour of the Reagan/Thatcher right wing continuum.

It wasn't until McDowell's profile became high that the PDs came to resemble neocons or neoliberals. While Harney typically continued to advocate compromise and moderation, McDowell pursued immigration, law and order and "let the free market pave your roads" policies. And in 2007 the electorate resoundingly rejected this new identity.

Furthermore, Bertie Ahern would not have dared take some of the recent actions made by Brian Cowen in relation to the government's interaction with the markets. He was cut from an old timey Fianna Fáil perspective of appeasing the parochial vote. Cowen has signalled a distancing from this strategy, firmly announced by FF's move to Liberal International. And the public are in the midst of rejecting this new, middle-class, business, social-welfare-is-dispensible Fianna Fáil mainstream as well.

My point is that there are few areas of Irish politics that aren't eccentric when compared to the discourses of other nations. We have a far more reasonable electoral system that encourages politicians to skirt around the centre and attack each other on issues rather than amorphous ideology (even if our debate can get as silly as anywhere else at times). The importing of the international formula for neoconservatism has been met only with disdain by the public and we continue to see that reaction to this day.

On social issues, we're sucking because few mainstream politicians want to get into abortion or gay rights or disability/mental health issues at the moment. While frustrating, you can count your blessings that no (legitimate) party has taken up these issues in order to scaremonger and bully people into voting on the right. Weird as it is, such an obvious political opportunity missed suggests some hope for a further thaw in social policy much like we saw in the early to mid ninetees.

[dsmythy]

Originally Posted by imokyrok

Does anyone else find their eyes glaze over every time they read the words "mass immigration" or "elites" in a post?

Even the most PC hating person has to use the term "mass" immigration to avoid being labelled someone who hates immigrants full stop.

[Tenderloins1]

All the individuals involved to date in Coir have had little or no electoral success when campaigning on their own policies. Richard Greenes Muintir na hEireann was a failure, Niamh Nic Mhathúna was a failure, Justin Barrett was a failure.
Others such as the Christian Solidarity Party , Christian Principles Party and The National Party have been failures.

The Immigration Control Platform have been a failure electorally too.

[djpbarry]

Originally Posted by Amhran Nua

Last time I checked it was in the region of 1:5 as a ratio...

I’d be very surprised if that were the case. From 2002 – 2008, Ireland received about 80,000 immigrants per annum, whereas newly recognised refuges numbered in the hundreds each year (about 500 on average).

Originally Posted by Amhran Nua

In any case we're not talking about the legal perspective, we're talking about the potential rise of a far right party as a reaction to foreigners arriving into the country.

Indeed, which is why it is especially important to challenge certain perceptions.

Originally Posted by Amhran Nua

...there is also an important distinction between immigrants and economic migrants, who are here for the short term, and who would constitute the majority of entrants to the country.

I don’t know whether that’s true at all. I’m sure there are a large number of short-term entrants, but how can you be sure they are in the majority?