[Biro]

Originally Posted by samsemtex

Every silage contractor i know has at least one 16-17 year old driving a big, relatively new and powerful tractor.

As for causing no harm, our closest silage contractor has killed 2 people by crashing into them.

That's rare though. Most deaths on farms is resulting from stupidity with machines and not taking precautions. I've only once in 30 years heard of a crash involving a tractor with a young person.

[irisheddie85]

its perfectly safe to give 16 year olds a licence to drive a tractor as most people who live an a farm will have been driving one for years and understand how the controls work.

The problem is with silage contractors hiring irresponsible drivers regardless of age and expecting them to work 14 hour days.

[smash]

Originally Posted by Zonda999

A 17 year old would never get insured on an M3 in this country, an m3 look-alike maybe!

Edit: samsemtex beat me to it!

Seriously are you for real? Under a parent's policy a 17 year old can get insured on anything if the parents are willing to pay!

[Gurgle]

Originally Posted by irisheddie85

its perfectly safe to give 16 year olds a licence to drive a tractor as most people who live an a farm will have been driving one for years and understand how the controls work.

Sure, it's perfectly safe for a 16 year old to take an unladen Massy 35 on the road, from the gates of the farmyard down a country cul-de-sac to the field 1/2 a mile away.

Not to drive a John Deere with a 30 foot trailer stacked 16 feet high with hay from one end of the country to the other.

Just look at the requirements to drive a matching size / weight / speed of lorry.

[Zube]

Originally Posted by irisheddie85

its perfectly safe to give 16 year olds a licence to drive a tractor as most people who live an a farm will have been driving one for years and understand how the controls work.

Actually, 40% of deaths in the workplace are on farms, although only 6% of the workforce work on farms. 60% of those deaths involve tractors and machinery.

So, no, it is not perfectly safe.

If you look here you'll see that the RSA and farmers reps have been discussing this issue. The Farm Tractor and Machinery Trade Association says:

Driver Licences

The area that is currently outside the scope of the EU Tractor Directive is driver licences. FTMTA believes that there needs to a workable response to this real issue. The FTMTA believes that 16-year-old applicants for the learner driving permit (Class W), should receive a Certificate of Competence in tractor operation, in order to apply for a tractor driving permit. FTMTA also believes that this learner driving permit should restrict the driver to a maximum speed of 40km/hr, and a maximum gross train weight of 24 tonnes.
This latter gross train weight, which means the weight of the tractor, trailer and load should be calculated on the basis of a 25% - 75% weight ratio in weight distribution between the tractor and trailer. The tractor should weigh a minimum of 25% of the overall gross train weight.
This would ensure that some tractor users would not use an unsafe and lighter tractor to get within the total load rating, preserving the safety of the young driver.

[Zonda999]

Originally Posted by steve06

Seriously are you for real? Under a parent's policy a 17 year old can get insured on anything if the parents are willing to pay!

Seriously now, how many 17year olds in this country can legally drive a real M3 today, do you think? Anyway, to the point, dangerous driving is just as easy to demonstrate in a corolla as an M3, but that isnt the point of the thread

[Paddy001]

I started driving when i was around 8 and i was driving machinery on the road when i was 16. I know i wouldnt have been left use any machine if i wasnt capable, and certainly not on the road. An average new tractor is now around 80k, plus a trailer etc. And there is no contractor that would spend that and let someone drive it who is not capable.

[irisheddie85]

Originally Posted by Gurgle

Not to drive a John Deere with a 30 foot trailer stacked 16 feet high with hay from one end of the country to the other.

Just look at the requirements to drive a matching size / weight / speed of lorry.

Thats why i said the problem is with people hiring bad drivers is the problem. Regardless of what age you are without a lot of experience driving with that sort of load is not safe to do. I wouldnt trust a 40 year old sales rep to drive what you describe across the country even though he is drivng years but he can also get a tractor licence and try and do it if he lossses his job

[Paddy001]

Also, im pretty sure your only meant to tow a single axled trailer on a provisional, but its not being enforced

[smash]

Originally Posted by Zonda999

Seriously now, how many 17year olds in this country can legally drive a real M3 today, do you think?

Any of them can, if they have the money to cover the insurance! a friend of mine was driving a new Prelude when he was 17!

[irisheddie85]

Originally Posted by Zube

Actually, 40% of deaths in the workplace are on farms, although only 6% of the workforce work on farms. 60% of those deaths involve tractors and machinery.

So, no, it is not perfectly safe.

Most of the deaths would be not when driving the tractor but when performing maintenaince on the tractor/attached machinery while trying to do work at the same time, yes this is a major problem but is why farms now have to have safety statements and other health and safety equipment in place by law.

The main way to stop these deaths is to teach people the proper way to act around all machinery from a young age.
I grew up on a farm and the tractor and other equipment was not a thing to play around with but to work with.

We never had any major accidents because we had a respect for what the machinery could do and were safe around machinery because from driving them we understood were the blindspots were for the driver and where around each machine was dangerous to stand touch.

[fig mclough]

Originally Posted by Theanswers

Maybe so,
But what harm are they causing? They are working for a contractor therefore they are "working"
Doing something worth while with there time instead of causing harm or damage.
As for the M3. I trust this is a bmw? A young person can get insured on any car. It just depends on how much you are willing to pay. I'm 17 and have been insured on a 06 e class mercedes/ Range rover.
Yet i'm 18 now. Still insured.
It's also not as expencive as you think.
Young people arnt all bad. We dont all cause harm, what i hate is that people just blame young people for everything.

i agree, there doing something instead of their friends driving up and the town all day which is pointless.

[Biro]

Originally Posted by irisheddie85

Most of the deaths would be not when driving the tractor but when performing maintenaince on the tractor/attached machinery while trying to do work at the same time, yes this is a major problem but is why farms now have to have safety statements and other health and safety equipment in place by law.

The main way to stop these deaths is to teach people the proper way to act around all machinery from a young age.
I grew up on a farm and the tractor and other equipment was not a thing to play around with but to work with.

We never had any major accidents because we had a respect for what the machinery could do and were safe around machinery because from driving them we understood were the blindspots were for the driver and where around each machine was dangerous to stand touch.

Excellent post. I hate it when people pull percentages of injurys and deaths on farms and use them to state that 16 year olds driving on the roads is dangerous, therefore we should ban it. That wouldn't save one life. The issue is exactly as you mention it in the post above.
The next person who posts about deaths on a farm should have the post deleted because it's unrelated to the discussion here, which is a 16 year old driving a tractor on the road legally.

[alo1587]

What i cant figure out is how they are allowed to tow a tri axle trailer with 20 ton of grain behind them.This weight is up there with articulated lorry weight.You need an EB licence for a car towing a trailer with combined weight over 3500kg,but a 16 year old can jump into a 7 ton tractor with a 20 ton trailer load up behind them and nothing needed.27ton on a W licence at 16.Dont get me wrong,most young lads i know driving them for the summer are excellent drivers,but i cant figure out how the licencing is so lax for them,especially around towing trailers with such weight

[Sandwich]

What makes you think the government thinks ?