Groundhog Day on Connolly/Rosslare Line

Judgement Day · 01-08-2009, 19:38

Well here we are, well over a year since the 22000-class railcars were supposed to appear on Connolly/Rosslare services and not one in sight yet but someone has leaked details of the new timetable due to come in to force on September 27th see below. Trains that leave before boats dock, trains that do not connect with each other, trains that you can travel to places on but cannot come back from! And it cost all of us millions to implement. It's long overdue that IE's C.E.O, Dick Fearn, and the Minister for Transport got their P45s and while Noel will get his at the next election there is no sign that Dick is going anywhere soon. Have a look at this 'confidential' document but make sure you are sitting down when you do - it's a cracker!!

Dublin%20Rosslare%20Europort[1].pdf

mfitzy · 01-08-2009, 20:46

I'm not that familiar with the timetabling on this route but God it does seem painfully slow indeed. And is such a shame the trains do not connect with ferries, not too much to ask it. God forbid they might get a few extra passangers; prob too much of an inconvience for IR

Has the station in Rosslare moved a bit too? Was down there last week and looked like it had.

Judgement Day · 01-08-2009, 20:50

Yes, the station has been relocated even further away from the boat - another masterstroke of planning by IE. Not that it really matters as they have managed to lose almost all of the foot passenger traffic anyway.

mfitzy · 01-08-2009, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Yes, the station has been relocated even further away from the boat - another masterstroke of planning by IE. Not that it really matters as they have managed to lose almost all of the foot passenger traffic anyway.

I think people from Dublin and the east coast would use the ferry if the train connected properly and reliably with the ferry. If it were promoted and tickets were part of your ferry ticket..

I see what you mean exactly. For instance the 18.30 from Connolly trundles into Rosslare at 21.30; the Stena Super to Fishguard leaves at 21.15

That is just one example of what you are talking about JD, presume most of the others are the same. 3 hours to go from Connolly to Rosslare; that's shockingly slow btw.

DWCommuter · 01-08-2009, 21:45

Only last week did I have to put my cousin off doing a rail and sail gig through Pembroke/Rosslare. Why?

1. The connections are bonkers
2. The journey time is 19th century and the rolling stock is embarrassing.

She's driving.

IE are blatantly trying to kill this line south of Gorey. Recession will aid them. Im going out on a limb and predicting the end of Rosslare - Gorey, Ballybrophy - Killonan, Rosslare - Limerick Junction. Sorry.

Im a pro rail person. I don't need to justify that, but Im practical in my approach. Once again I say this....how ****ing crazy is it that we spend 100 million on reopening the WRC and in fairness, Midleton, while operating railways are being run into the ground. If the Government spent more time sorting out IE rather than placating WOT and their shower of Knock shrine lick arses along with voters in certain areas, we just might see things happen in an organised and constructive fashion. As it stands, IE run two railways, thats the one for themselves and the one for the DOT. What a pity the one for existing passengers is sadly lacking.

mfitzy · 01-08-2009, 21:52

Would be such a pity to see Gorey-Rosslare close altogether, but with times and timetabling like this who would be surprised? Unlike the WRC wich trundles through no mans land for much of it, this line has a decent population base and a ferry port at its end.
i don't think it will close tbh (and hope it doesn't), probably the most picturesque rail line in the country as well.

100 million euro could probably ahve transformed this route and would be far more viable than that poorly engineered rehash of cheap 19th century rail in the West. It is Dublin commuter belt territory afterall.

mfitzy · 01-08-2009, 21:55

And I saw they use those Commuter rail cars on this route too. Hardly the most comfortable for a journey that they drag on for 3 hours

I don't think that's even an average of 40 miles per hour

. The other mainlines are almost Rolls Royce in comparison.

MYOB · 01-08-2009, 21:56

I thought the line to Rosslare couldn't be closed without consent of the British parliament? Ditto the line to Fishguard the other site and the Dail...

I did the rail/sail/rail alternative to a flight back from Cardiff when I was 17 because I didn't have the cash for a hotel for the night and this meant I could sleep on the boat/train. Horrific mistake... I'd have found the £50 or whatever a dosshouse guesthouse cost if I'd known how bad the Rosslare->Dublin leg was going to be !

DWCommuter · 01-08-2009, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYOB

I thought the line to Rosslare couldn't be closed without consent of the British parliament? Ditto the line to Fishguard the other site and the Dail...

I did the rail/sail/rail alternative to a flight back from Cardiff when I was 17 because I didn't have the cash for a hotel for the night and this meant I could sleep on the boat/train. Horrific mistake... I'd have found the £50 or whatever a dosshouse guesthouse cost if I'd known how bad the Rosslare->Dublin leg was going to be !

Its the waterford connection to the Rosslare line that was tied up in that malarkey, but apparently CIE done a deal years ago to gain ownership. Im open to correction though.

Judgement Day · 01-08-2009, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWCommuter

Its the waterford connection to the Rosslare line that was tied up in that malarkey, but apparently CIE done a deal years ago to gain ownership. Im open to correction though.

As far as I can ascertain the Fishguard &Rosslare Railways & Harbour Company still exists and is jointly owned by Stena Line and CIE, while the Port of Rosslare is owned by CIE/IE. Anyway for all the good it will do I am going to pursue Dick Fearn and our local (and useless) TDs about the timetable changes on Tuesday and will report back here.

101sean · 01-08-2009, 23:09

Fishguard & Rosslare Railways and Harbours Company inc 1894. The GWR, FRRHC and GSWR agreed in 1898 to set up sea route and rail link to Waterford. As far as I can tell it still exists with equal shares held by IE and Stena Line. Going by the ongoing changes at Rosslare I suspect both parties regard it as an embarrasment they'd rather be shot of.

Along with removal of the station to a remote site, all the passenger walkways from ship to terminal are being demolished as the foot passengers are being transfered by coach (been surprised at how may on some trips, obviously not using the trains!)

As a long term user of Rosslare (can remember my father's car being craned out of the hold in 1964 and with the early Ro-ro ferry's cars having to drive on to flat wagons for transfer off the pier by train) I'm very saddened by the continuing run down of the rail services here. Did it by train a couple of tmes in the 70s, once via Rosslare, the other via Dun Laoghaire (Carlisle pier). Wouldn't consider attempting it now.

Just got this telling statement off the IRRS site from IE's man responsible for resignalling

Rosslare Europort When the re-signalling project was being designed a number of issues were raised with the existing station area within the Port of Rosslare Harbour. With few cross-channel passengers using the rail service, the need to streamline the flow of road traffic to and from the ferries and the cost of retaining the existing layout resulted in a decision to relocate the station. It was decided the turntable should be retained for steam-hauled trains. However, the salty sea spray of more than a century had eroded the side plates of the turntable to such an extent that they had large rust holes. The IÉ bridge gang repaired these to give the turntable many more years of useful life.

The new station is a simple affair with a 146m platform constructed of 57 pre-cast concrete ‘U’ shape units of 2.5m width. A pre-cast concrete lid is placed on the ‘U’ sections ready to accept the coping stones, piping for services, back fill and tarmac surface, as well as 1.8m high palisade back fence. A dedicated pathway leads from the seaward end of the platform to the footpath leading to the main terminal building. Where the new footpath crosses the lines to the turntable there is a gated level crossing protected by signals. When a locomotive requires access to the turntable a local operator attends at the level crossing and locks the gates against the pathway and places the Fortress keys of the gates in the receptacle close by. The Signalman can then signal the locomotive to or from the turntable.

The new platform can accommodate two 3-car 22000-class railcars. The adjacent running line terminates in a “run off” with a friction buffer stop. There is a crossover to the up loop siding and turntable. At the Dublin end, a crossover to the siding also provides the potential for a short 3-carriage siding to facilitate swapping around the Dublin and Waterford trains. The loop siding can accommodate eight-railcar trains.

The new station is nearer the village of Rosslare Harbour from where the majority of passengers come from, though it is about 8-minutes walk from the shipping terminal

The last paragraph is a masterpiece!

bmaxi · 02-08-2009, 11:22

At least it's good to see a mid morning service, up to now if you didn't get the 08.50 from Gorey you had to wait 'til 14.14 for the next train. I can't understand why they pulled the 14.14 back to Arklow as in my experience it was relatively well supported in Gorey.
I wonder what's the chances of a future shuttle service from Gorey to connect with Darts in Greystones as my information, from I.E., is that it is the Dart that has the detrimental effect on the service.
Rail is losing out big time to buses from Gorey. New timetables from Bus Eireann, Ardcavan and Wexford Bus mean 30+ services a day with a travel time of 11/2 hours or less.

luzon · 02-08-2009, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Well here we are, well over a year since the 22000-class railcars were supposed to appear on Connolly/Rosslare services and not one in sight yet but someone has leaked details of the new timetable due to come in to force on September 27th see below. Trains that leave before boats dock, trains that do not connect with each other, trains that you can travel to places on but cannot come back from! And it cost all of us millions to implement. It's long overdue that IE's C.E.O, Dick Fearn, and the Minister for Transport got their P45s and while Noel will get his at the next election there is no sign that Dick is going anywhere soon. Have a look at this 'confidential' document but make sure you are sitting down when you do - it's a cracker!!

Attachment 86746

but the train never connected to the ferry as far as i know

101sean · 02-08-2009, 20:54

They haven't for a long time, days of the boat trains dissappered years ago. Live on in some train names in the UK but they don't wait for the ferries any more. Mind you, more chance of not hanging around all day for a train in the UK, Fishguard, Holyhead and Pembroke Dock can justify regular services without the ferries.

For anyone nostalgic about throwing up on the crossing, The Ships of Rosslare Harbour is a good read.

Maverick88 · 02-08-2009, 22:14

Paddington- Fishguard- Rosslare-Wexford is a journey I did many times. I would be at platform 8 of Paddinton station at 8pm on the evening of breaking up for summer holidays for six weeks with my grandparents in either Wexford or Enniscorthy.

Well remember coming around the sea wall of Rosslare to see the Dublin and Waterford trains sitting side by side (when the trains ran right down to beside the ferries) waiting for the ferry to dock.

Also the journey back when the train from Wexford would run down the old wooden works at Wexford quay towards Rosslare to connect with the evening ferry to Fishguard.

01-08-2009, 19:38	#1
Judgement Day Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Diego Garcia Posts: 1,920 Adverts \| Friends	Groundhog Day on Connolly/Rosslare Line Well here we are, well over a year since the 22000-class railcars were supposed to appear on Connolly/Rosslare services and not one in sight yet but someone has leaked details of the new timetable due to come in to force on September 27th see below. Trains that leave before boats dock, trains that do not connect with each other, trains that you can travel to places on but cannot come back from! And it cost all of us millions to implement. It's long overdue that IE's C.E.O, Dick Fearn, and the Minister for Transport got their P45s and while Noel will get his at the next election there is no sign that Dick is going anywhere soon. Have a look at this 'confidential' document but make sure you are sitting down when you do - it's a cracker!! Dublin%20Rosslare%20Europort[1].pdf __________________ I'll be back!

01-08-2009, 20:50	#3
Judgement Day Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Diego Garcia Posts: 1,920 Adverts \| Friends	Yes, the station has been relocated even further away from the boat - another masterstroke of planning by IE. Not that it really matters as they have managed to lose almost all of the foot passenger traffic anyway. __________________ I'll be back!

01-08-2009, 21:45	#5
DWCommuter Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Reality Posts: 918 Adverts \| Friends	Only last week did I have to put my cousin off doing a rail and sail gig through Pembroke/Rosslare. Why? 1. The connections are bonkers 2. The journey time is 19th century and the rolling stock is embarrassing. She's driving. IE are blatantly trying to kill this line south of Gorey. Recession will aid them. Im going out on a limb and predicting the end of Rosslare - Gorey, Ballybrophy - Killonan, Rosslare - Limerick Junction. Sorry. Im a pro rail person. I don't need to justify that, but Im practical in my approach. Once again I say this....how ****ing crazy is it that we spend 100 million on reopening the WRC and in fairness, Midleton, while operating railways are being run into the ground. If the Government spent more time sorting out IE rather than placating WOT and their shower of Knock shrine lick arses along with voters in certain areas, we just might see things happen in an organised and constructive fashion. As it stands, IE run two railways, thats the one for themselves and the one for the DOT. What a pity the one for existing passengers is sadly lacking. __________________ My C&T forum bans are stacking up. Be the next one to tempt me!

01-08-2009, 21:52	#6
mfitzy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kilkenny Posts: 2,235 Adverts \| Friends	Would be such a pity to see Gorey-Rosslare close altogether, but with times and timetabling like this who would be surprised? Unlike the WRC wich trundles through no mans land for much of it, this line has a decent population base and a ferry port at its end. i don't think it will close tbh (and hope it doesn't), probably the most picturesque rail line in the country as well. 100 million euro could probably ahve transformed this route and would be far more viable than that poorly engineered rehash of cheap 19th century rail in the West. It is Dublin commuter belt territory afterall. Last edited by mfitzy; 01-08-2009 at 21:58.

01-08-2009, 23:09	#11
101sean Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Co Tipp Posts: 315 Adverts \| Friends	Fishguard & Rosslare Railways and Harbours Company inc 1894. The GWR, FRRHC and GSWR agreed in 1898 to set up sea route and rail link to Waterford. As far as I can tell it still exists with equal shares held by IE and Stena Line. Going by the ongoing changes at Rosslare I suspect both parties regard it as an embarrasment they'd rather be shot of. Along with removal of the station to a remote site, all the passenger walkways from ship to terminal are being demolished as the foot passengers are being transfered by coach (been surprised at how may on some trips, obviously not using the trains!) As a long term user of Rosslare (can remember my father's car being craned out of the hold in 1964 and with the early Ro-ro ferry's cars having to drive on to flat wagons for transfer off the pier by train) I'm very saddened by the continuing run down of the rail services here. Did it by train a couple of tmes in the 70s, once via Rosslare, the other via Dun Laoghaire (Carlisle pier). Wouldn't consider attempting it now. Just got this telling statement off the IRRS site from IE's man responsible for resignalling Rosslare Europort When the re-signalling project was being designed a number of issues were raised with the existing station area within the Port of Rosslare Harbour. With few cross-channel passengers using the rail service, the need to streamline the flow of road traffic to and from the ferries and the cost of retaining the existing layout resulted in a decision to relocate the station. It was decided the turntable should be retained for steam-hauled trains. However, the salty sea spray of more than a century had eroded the side plates of the turntable to such an extent that they had large rust holes. The IÉ bridge gang repaired these to give the turntable many more years of useful life. The new station is a simple affair with a 146m platform constructed of 57 pre-cast concrete ‘U’ shape units of 2.5m width. A pre-cast concrete lid is placed on the ‘U’ sections ready to accept the coping stones, piping for services, back fill and tarmac surface, as well as 1.8m high palisade back fence. A dedicated pathway leads from the seaward end of the platform to the footpath leading to the main terminal building. Where the new footpath crosses the lines to the turntable there is a gated level crossing protected by signals. When a locomotive requires access to the turntable a local operator attends at the level crossing and locks the gates against the pathway and places the Fortress keys of the gates in the receptacle close by. The Signalman can then signal the locomotive to or from the turntable. The new platform can accommodate two 3-car 22000-class railcars. The adjacent running line terminates in a “run off” with a friction buffer stop. There is a crossover to the up loop siding and turntable. At the Dublin end, a crossover to the siding also provides the potential for a short 3-carriage siding to facilitate swapping around the Dublin and Waterford trains. The loop siding can accommodate eight-railcar trains. The new station is nearer the village of Rosslare Harbour from where the majority of passengers come from, though it is about 8-minutes walk from the shipping terminal The last paragraph is a masterpiece! __________________ Sean 1975 Land Rover 101 Forward Control gun tractor 2000 Land Rover 110 CSW Blingwagon

01-08-2009, 20:46	#2
mfitzy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kilkenny Posts: 2,235 Adverts \| Friends	I'm not that familiar with the timetabling on this route but God it does seem painfully slow indeed. And is such a shame the trains do not connect with ferries, not too much to ask it. God forbid they might get a few extra passangers; prob too much of an inconvience for IR Has the station in Rosslare moved a bit too? Was down there last week and looked like it had.

01-08-2009, 21:55	#7
mfitzy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kilkenny Posts: 2,235 Adverts \| Friends	And I saw they use those Commuter rail cars on this route too. Hardly the most comfortable for a journey that they drag on for 3 hours I don't think that's even an average of 40 miles per hour . The other mainlines are almost Rolls Royce in comparison.

01-08-2009, 21:56	#8
MYOB Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Maynooth Posts: 9,015 Adverts \| Friends	I thought the line to Rosslare couldn't be closed without consent of the British parliament? Ditto the line to Fishguard the other site and the Dail... I did the rail/sail/rail alternative to a flight back from Cardiff when I was 17 because I didn't have the cash for a hotel for the night and this meant I could sleep on the boat/train. Horrific mistake... I'd have found the £50 or whatever a dosshouse guesthouse cost if I'd known how bad the Rosslare->Dublin leg was going to be !

02-08-2009, 11:22	#12
bmaxi Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,238 Adverts \| Friends	At least it's good to see a mid morning service, up to now if you didn't get the 08.50 from Gorey you had to wait 'til 14.14 for the next train. I can't understand why they pulled the 14.14 back to Arklow as in my experience it was relatively well supported in Gorey. I wonder what's the chances of a future shuttle service from Gorey to connect with Darts in Greystones as my information, from I.E., is that it is the Dart that has the detrimental effect on the service. Rail is losing out big time to buses from Gorey. New timetables from Bus Eireann, Ardcavan and Wexford Bus mean 30+ services a day with a travel time of 11/2 hours or less. __________________ Democracy, Fianna Fáil style; "Government of the people, for some people."

02-08-2009, 20:54	#14
101sean Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Co Tipp Posts: 315 Adverts \| Friends	They haven't for a long time, days of the boat trains dissappered years ago. Live on in some train names in the UK but they don't wait for the ferries any more. Mind you, more chance of not hanging around all day for a train in the UK, Fishguard, Holyhead and Pembroke Dock can justify regular services without the ferries. For anyone nostalgic about throwing up on the crossing, The Ships of Rosslare Harbour is a good read. __________________ Sean 1975 Land Rover 101 Forward Control gun tractor 2000 Land Rover 110 CSW Blingwagon

02-08-2009, 22:14	#15
Maverick88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Feeling the need for speed Posts: 39 Adverts \| Friends	Paddington- Fishguard- Rosslare-Wexford is a journey I did many times. I would be at platform 8 of Paddinton station at 8pm on the evening of breaking up for summer holidays for six weeks with my grandparents in either Wexford or Enniscorthy. Well remember coming around the sea wall of Rosslare to see the Dublin and Waterford trains sitting side by side (when the trains ran right down to beside the ferries) waiting for the ferry to dock. Also the journey back when the train from Wexford would run down the old wooden works at Wexford quay towards Rosslare to connect with the evening ferry to Fishguard.

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