Veggies and GM food

[Mark Hamill]

In the first post of the Vegetarian (etc.) bargains/special offers thread, the OP warns against a product containing GM soya beans so I have put u a poll because I am wondering what other veggies opinions are on GM foods.
Personally I have no problem with eating something GM, as long as it is vegetarian and while I am not at all against more and more independant health and enviromental studies being done on the different types of GM crops, I think that a lot (not all) of the objections come from peoples knee jerk disapproval of anything deemed "not natural".

[Eviecus]

I wouldn't eat GM foods. I know I have probably accidentally eaten some but it freaks me out a little so I would never consciously eat them.

[Mark Hamill]

Originally Posted by Eviecus

I wouldn't eat GM foods. I know I have probably accidentally eaten some but it freaks me out a little so I would never consciously eat them.

Why does it freak you out? what do you think could happen?

[Thoushaltnot]

Originally Posted by Mark Hamill

Why does it freak you out? what do you think could happen?

Because I'm an airy-faery free-lovin hippy peace-n-love nik thats always gonna side with those kerazy Friends of the Earth/Greenpeace "nutjobs" over Monsanto. Typical middle class dreamer. Needs to get a job.

Sarcasm to one side for a mo. I don't know enough of the science but that means that I don't know enough of the science to give it a thumbs up. Their unwillingness to publish studies is a red flag as are the accusations and counter accusations.
The science of frankenfoods is in it's relative infancy and I don't want to be an example in what could be the future "Silent Spring". I did research this years ago and was left unconvinced.

Hang on for a second - my tinfoil is about to unravel and expose my precious brainwaves.

Aha, thats better.

When there are many thorough and independent studies in the public domain, that I feel I can trust, then I'll revisit this. And when enough time has passed, without any unforseen effects coming to light, and coming to light the bad way, then we'll see.

You wanna be potentially, a long term, unpaid guinea pig, go for it!

I do not. I will not.

[Tar.Aldarion]

'Natural' does not come into it for me, the human diet changes all the time, nothing we eat is 'natural' now really, and it is a meaningless term anyway. Are there dangers? Possibly. GM food has been around for about 20 years now hasn't it? Haven't really seen any problems, of course genetic engineering is new to us, and people will be frightened, new technology should lead to wariness. Only down side is no long-term safety testing, same thing as there was with phones, it'll kill you because we don't know that it won't for sure! I don't see much difference in the eugenically created foods like bananas and tomatoes we eat today and GM food, is there?

[Mark Hamill]

Originally Posted by Thoushaltnot

When there are many thorough and independent studies in the public domain, that I feel I can trust, then I'll revisit this. And when enough time has passed, without any unforseen effects coming to light, and coming to light the bad way, then we'll see.

You wanna be potentially, a long term, unpaid guinea pig, go for it!

I do not. I will not.

You realise GM foods have been on the market around for over 15 years right? Chances are you already are a long term guinea pig.
Besides there are plenty of chemicals in non GM consumables that have caused unforeseen effects in people-look at all the food colourings that are banned.
What you are saying-question the studies made by industry, make independant and long term studies- these also apply to non GM foodstuffs too, because nothing, either natural or artificial or GM is inherently good or bad for you simply because of where its sourced or how its made.

[Mark Hamill]

Originally Posted by Tar.Aldarion

'Natural' does not come into it for me, the human diet changes all the time, nothing we eat is 'natural' now really, and it is a meaningless term anyway.

"Natural" is a buzz word companies put on their food packaging to justify adding 20% to the price.

[Thoushaltnot]

Originally Posted by Mark Hamill

"Natural" is a buzz word companies put on their food packaging to justify adding 20% to the price.

Amen, brother. Not just "natural" but a whole host of labels and labelling practice are well suspect (I was lucky enough to catch that Channel 4 expose on how misleading our food labelling, packaging and marketing is). Anyhow, Ebola is natural, as are sharks. Quorn, which I love is not so much.

But I don't trust GM. The more I study, the less I trust.

And yes, soya products seem to be the among, if not are the most GM contaminated foodstuffs around and since I'm veggie, I'd eat more than the average Irish person.

Crossing one breed of tomatoe with another or breeding the most insect resistant plants of a breed with each other is just hurrying up evolution in a defined system (the one that suits humans the best). Transplanting a gene from an artic dwelling fish, to make it more frost resistant - clever science but ultimately? That's the change we can see initially /want. What other changes does it make to the organism that we haven't copped yet? And more particularly to us when this chemical passes through into out bloodstreams? Maybe frostbite would become a thing of the past in humans. And maybe our lungs will start shrinking and we now have a gene that will try to produce gills but that will only show up in genetic mutations several generations down the line. Can you guarantee down the line that this will *not* happen? What can't we see....yet?
Maybe it's right in front of our eyes and we haven't made the link.

15 years is *not* long enough for me here.

Chernobyl isn't much older than GM then and we're still learning.

[Ouchette]

Transplanting a gene from an artic dwelling fish, to make it more frost resistant - clever science but ultimately? That's the change we can see initially /want. What other changes does it make to the organism that we haven't copped yet? And more particularly to us when this chemical passes through into out bloodstreams? Maybe frostbite would become a thing of the past in humans. And maybe our lungs will start shrinking and we now have a gene that will try to produce gills but that will only show up in genetic mutations several generations down the line.

But eating something doesn't actually allow us to aquire the genetics of the food, does it? Like no matter how many green things I eat, I'm not going to acquire the ability to photosynthesise; I just get the vitamins and iron and stuff.

I have some concerns about GM food, but they'd be about loss of diversity and Monsanto having too much power, not health.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Yes, although her science may not be accurate at least there is the point of 'unseen risks'. I just think that they come with every food and technology anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Much like people thinking microwaves or mobile phones would fry our brain, I will only worry when there are signs! And I really doubt there will be.

[dementedsoul]

I meant to click "I'd eat GM foods as long as they were vegan" but clicked "....as long as they were vegetarian" by mistake. Doesn't make that much difference to the arguement really, but it was kind of irritating me.
That is all

[Eviecus]

Originally Posted by Mark Hamill

Why does it freak you out? what do you think could happen?

I don't understand it enough to eat it. I don't see why something has to be GM, there's no real need for it when fruit and veg can be produced naturally instead. I try eat as natural a diet as possible.

[taram]

Originally Posted by Ouchette

But eating something doesn't actually allow us to aquire the genetics of the food, does it? Like no matter how many green things I eat, I'm not going to acquire the ability to photosynthesise; I just get the vitamins and iron and stuff.

I have some concerns about GM food, but they'd be about loss of diversity and Monsanto having too much power, not health.

+1 I feel the same way.

This is pretty close to my heart since my degree is actually in plant biotechnology (and I get to now work in a shoe shop, that went well ). Even within my classes I've been queried that I can't be a vegetarian and be positive about GM.

[Mark Hamill]

Originally Posted by Eviecus

I don't understand it enough to eat it. I don't see why something has to be GM, there's no real need for it when fruit and veg can be produced naturally instead.

Improvements in crop output and crop quality are always needed. If you can get more crop from a piece of land than its better for the economy as it makes crops easier to farm and less land is needed in general for farming, thus making improvements to crops (GM or otherwise) better for the enviroment. Besides, the fruit and veg you eat now aren't grown naturally. They are planted by someone who sprays fertilizer and insectiside on them.

Originally Posted by Eviecus

I try eat as natural a diet as possible.

You're a vegetarian, how "natural" is that?
Is none of your food processed? Do you just go around pulling naturally growing vegetables from the ground and eating them? What about your clothes, do you wear fig leaves? What makes you think "natural" is better?

[Mark Hamill]

Originally Posted by Tar.Aldarion

Yes, although her science may not be accurate at least there is the point of 'unseen risks'. I just think that they come with every food and technology anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Much like people thinking microwaves or mobile phones would fry our brain, I will only worry when there are signs! And I really doubt there will be.

Tbh, I wouldn't say the risks don't matter, just because their are risks in other apsects of life, I just don't think that the risks with GM foods should be singled out, when there are still risks with non GM food anyway.