The 9 million euro bikes thanks to Andrew Montague

[lostexpectation]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6727865.ece

It was christened the “free bike scheme” but JCDecaux, the French advertiser chosen to run a “bikes-for-billboards” project in Dublin, actually stands to earn €9m more than the city council from the project.

The contract signed by the council and the advertising company, which has been released to The Sunday Times after a ruling by the Information Commissioner, reveals that JCDecaux is due to make €63.38m in advertising revenue over 15 years from the 72 advertising billboards it has been allowed to erect.

By contrast, the council will receive benefits estimated to be worth €54.36m over 15 years, including 450 bicycles, 40 bicycle “stations”, €23.4m worth of advertising on the billboards, and a “wayfinding” system of 100 “fingerpost” signs directing tourists to attractions in the city.

The council has said JCDecaux was chosen to operate the scheme because its proposal was “costneutral”. Originally due to start two years ago, the scheme will now begin in mid-September. Bikes will be free to hire for the first 30 minutes, and are then paid for.

The city council had refused to release details of the contract, citing a confidentiality agreement with JCDecaux. Emily O’Reilly, the Information Commissioner, ruled, however, that “the public had not been given sufficient information on which to assess the council’s handling of the matter and to understand what the city might stand to gain or lose”....

if he wants to argue with the thread title he can go ahead and tell us what the actual costs are...

[Metrobest]

Why would he want to engage in a debate with someone who's so scathingly rude and doesn't even know that Ireland uses the euro?

One thing is clear. JC is not going to make a hell of a lot of money out of this deal and maybe even will make a loss while Ireland is in recession.

[Victor]

Title changed from "the 9 million pound bikes thanks to andrew montague" to "The 9 million euro bikes thanks to Andrew Montague".

lostexpectation, what does this have to do with Andrew Montague?

[lostexpectation]

he personally said he was the one who campaigned to intiate the whole deal

[monument]

Originally Posted by lostexpectation

if he wants to argue with the thread title he can go ahead and tell us what the actual costs are...

Where are you getting that figure from?

Please do answer even if you are plucking it out of thin air. If you are asking for transparency from others, making stuff up is likely not the best way to start, is it?

Originally Posted by lostexpectation

he personally said he was the one who campaigned to intiate the whole deal

Did he campaign for the deal its self or for the bike rental system in general?

[AMontague]

I campaigned to have a Free Bike Scheme for Dublin since I first got elected to Dublin City Council five years ago, although I was open-minded about which particular scheme to use. I've also always supported calls to have the details of the agreement made public, so I'm delighted that Colm Coyle managed to get this information for the Sunday Times. In my opinion, Dublin City Council got value for money. Obviously, not everyone will agree with me.

According to the information released to the Sunday Times, JC Decaux expected to earn €63 million through advertising over 15 years and supply Dublin City Council with €54 million of benefits. This being the case JC Decaux would stand to make a profit of €9 million over 15 years, or €600,000/year. I would have thought that was a reasonable return. Did anyone expect that JCD would not make a profit?

However, two things have changed since then:
Firstly, as part of the contract agreed with Dublin City Council, JC Decaux agreed to remove 50 large billboards from the gable ends of buildings in Dublin (48 sheet billboards). An Bord Pleanála insisted that JC Decaux remove 100 billboards from around the city. This did not incur any reduction in services provided to Dublin City Council but has obviously reduced the profits for JCD. I believe four billboards have been put back up and this is likely to end up in the courts. But as things stand 96 billboards have been removed.

Secondly, the economic downturn has now reduced the income that JCD can expect to make from their advertisements.

Despite making less money as a result of these two factors, the services supplied to Dublin City Council remain the same.

On September 13th 450 bikes will be available for use in Dublin. Something that I've been advocating, for over five years. I'm delighted the bikes are coming, and I'm delighted that the costs are now firmly out in the open, so we can debate the true figures and not speculated figures.

Andrew Montague

[Terrontress]

Originally Posted by AMontague

I campaigned to have a Free Bike Scheme for Dublin since I first got elected to Dublin City Council five years ago, although I was open-minded about which particular scheme to use. I've also always supported calls to have the details of the agreement made public, so I'm delighted that Colm Coyle managed to get this information for the Sunday Times. In my opinion, Dublin City Council got value for money. Obviously, not everyone will agree with me.

According to the information released to the Sunday Times, JC Decaux expected to earn 63 million through advertising over 15 years and supply Dublin City Council with 54 million of benefits. This being the case JC Decaux would stand to make a profit of 9 million over 15 years, or 600,000/year. I would have thought that was a reasonable return. Did anyone expect that JCD would not make a profit?

However, two things have changed since then:
Firstly, as part of the contract agreed with Dublin City Council, JC Decaux agreed to remove 50 large billboards from the gable ends of buildings in Dublin (48 sheet billboards). An Bord Pleanála insisted that JC Decaux remove 100 billboards from around the city. This did not incur any reduction in services provided to Dublin City Council but has obviously reduced the profits for JCD. I believe four billboards have been put back up and this is likely to end up in the courts. But as things stand 96 billboards have been removed.

Secondly, the economic downturn has now reduced the income that JCD can expect to make from their advertisements.

Despite making less money as a result of these two factors, the services supplied to Dublin City Council remain the same.

On September 13th 450 bikes will be available for use in Dublin. Something that I've been advocating, for over five years. I'm delighted the bikes are coming, and I'm delighted that the costs are now firmly out in the open, so we can debate the true figures and not speculated figures.

Andrew Montague

Given that you are portraying the jc to be getting the rough end of the deal, who is going to fix the bicycles when they are wantonly damaged on a repeated basis?

I think a lot of people are worried that there will be hundreds of unusable ****e taking up valuable space throughout the city.

You have to remember Mr. Montague that you do not own the roads, you simply represent the interests of THOSE WHO DO!

[monument]

Originally Posted by Terrontress

Given that you are portraying the jc to be getting the rough end of the deal, who is going to fix the bicycles when they are wantonly damaged on a repeated basis?...

JC Decaux are to fix the bicycles if or when they are damaged.

It's part of the deal which has never been kept hidden, and has been answered more than a number of times in articles and threads posted here.

[Carawaystick]

54e6/450 is a lot per bike - even if you divide it over the 15 years that's still about 8 grand per bike per year. If each bike is replaced each month they are costing over 600 each time.....
I just can't see how the 54 million scheme is costed.*

The above figures don't take into account the revenue from charging users for the free bikes.....

Also Andrew specifically - The 54million of benefit provided to the corpo by jcd does that include VAT? and is it at 21.5% like is normally applied to bikes. Because if it does the corpo is only getting about 44 billion of benefit.

* unless there's a load of waste and jam for those running the scheme. Of course that'd never happen.

[monument]

Originally Posted by Carawaystick

If each bike is replaced each month...

Would there not have to be a very extrema level of vandalism and/or theft for each bike to be replaced each month?

Originally Posted by Carawaystick

The above figures don't take into account the revenue from charging users for the free bikes.....

Err... you know that revenue goes to the city and not JC Decaux? Unless something has been changed recently?

[RonnieQuibbles]

I for one one am in favour of any kind of initiative to get some free-to-use (limited but still...) Bikes on the roads of our Capital, this kind of thing has been going on for quite a long time in many EU countries (Danish & Dutch have FREE-to-use bikes in city centers for a while now) & on a par with the pay-per-use system, many German cities have bikes with time locks that you can text/call to unlock & use with a credit card.

The fact still stands that as a whole, WE as a nation do probably not have the same regard to not smashing up s**t that is not ours, as these countries (Don't worry i ain't talking about YE fellow posters...i am talking about the wannabee skangers...) ,i believe that still if we made sure the bikes were made as durable as they make their "Public-Bikes" abroad, they might last longer than 2 months a pop.

This being said i once stumbled quite a good blog about a Danish Photo-Journalist/Hobo-adventurer type that cycled from Copenhagen to the Eastern Europe on a SOLID-RUBBER (so they don't get punctured,) wheeled 30kg hunk-of-metal of a bike, so ya never know where they might end up (btw if anyone else comes across that same guys blog PM me the link because i can't find it and that guy also went from North coast Europe to Mediterranean on something like €14, so naturally i want to follow his ramblings ^^)

[kona]

Can The actual cost of the bike be made public? I dont for a second believe Those bikes are costing Jc DEcaux e450. If they retailed at that in a shop, they wouldnt sell. Considering they are being bought by the hundreds Id imagine they are getting them considerably cheaper, perhaps around the e300 mark.

Could it be that the same company who is re-erecting advert boards after they signed a deal to take them down, the same company who tried to worm out of the paris velib scheme because "its costing too much", may be infalting the purchase cost of the bikes to squeeze every last € from a already, financially raped Irish Tax Payer?

For Mr. Montague, there is a thread over 20 pages(admittedly only maybe 15 are useful) over in the cycling forum, maybe the points raised by cyclists should be taken aboard.

Mr. MOntague, maybe you should re-think you strategy and, ask why should Jc Decaux make a profit at all off our money?

You could easily have just sold ad space then, re-invested it into cycling in Dublin, Done correctley, It would IMO have been better for the city.

[spurious]

Originally Posted by AMontague

But as things stand 96 billboards have been removed.

While realising it's slightly OT, can you give locations for those?
JC Decaux haven't removed billboards in the past that they were required to - I'm amazed they're suddenly being compliant.

Even four or five locations would be great. Thanks.

[penexpers]

Originally Posted by AMontague

Secondly, the economic downturn has now reduced the income that JCD can expect to make from their advertisements.

Surely, by inverse, the value of the "free" advertising that DCC are getting out of this has gone down too?

[Quint]

Is this just crazy or could the council not got someone to built the bike thingies, sold JCDecaux the advertising and been €9m up?
Not to mention the fact that their ads have been up for ages but there's no sign of a bike yet