Irish language - Revamp in Education.

[dlofnep]

Just something I've been study for a while. Looking for people's ideas towards revamping the Irish language in school.

This thread is not for people to offer negative thoughts on what their perceive to be a dead language. It is purely for the discussion on how we can change the education in order to ensure that the language is obtained.

Firstly - My opinion on the language. I think that the entire curriculum is failed because it focuses purely on language study rather than language acquisition. You might ask - Well, what is the difference? Study is where you take on the language in a structured format, while acquisition relies heavily on language immersion where you acquire the language by using it and listening to it.

To combat this - I suggest that a subject should be taught through the Irish language, or an Irish conversational class be introduced to school. Preferably, both for much more productive results.

I would argue for this being optional for secondary school, at least for leaving cert level - to let those who like the language keep up with it, and those who have developed a stigma for it to lose that stigma, and hopefully pick it up later in life (Like I have). Perhaps the standard Irish class could remain mandatory, but it's up for debate (as always).

I'm looking for your thoughts on how we can revamp the curriculum, and for new and creative ways for improving the visibility of the language in school.

Le meas,
dlofnep

[me_right_one]

I say just bite the bullet and make all primary schools teach everything through Irish. Wasn't that the whole idea of making primary teachers have fluent Irish in the first place? There's never been a better time. Gaelscoilanna are the most popular they've ever been, most adults under 40 have a decent level of Irish so they could continue to converse with their kids in Irish when they get home, and it wouldn't cost the govt a thing! DO IT COWEN!!

[conchubhar1]

the increase of marks for the oral was a good/great move

it will increase to 40% in 2010 - add that to 15% aural and the sylabus will be 55% useful for learning the language as a language!

[dlofnep]

I think the increase in marks had little to no bearing on the overall visibility or promotion for the language.

Firstly, for those who have problems with Irish - it may create a stigma for them if they can't get into college, based on the results of their Irish.

Secondly - unless focus is placed in class on actual conversational Irish, then increasing the marks for it won't really do all too much. Just my opinion. I think radical change is needed from day 1 in the classroom, rather than at the end of it all at the exams.

I don't even believe that exams in Irish are all that important. I would argue that removal of mandatory examination may put less stress on people and may entice more people to learn the language. Perhaps examination could be optional for those who wanted to attend courses which required Irish. I'm not 100% on this yet though, so don't quote me. Still pondering about it as I read about linguistics.

[Crosáidí]

Originally Posted by me_right_one

I say just bite the bullet and make all primary schools teach everything through Irish. Wasn't that the whole idea of making primary teachers have fluent Irish in the first place? There's never been a better time. Gaelscoilanna are the most popular they've ever been, most adults under 40 have a decent level of Irish so they could continue to converse with their kids in Irish when they get home, and it wouldn't cost the govt a thing! DO IT COWEN!!

I always thought this should be done aswell
and have more secondary Gaeilscoileanna

[pog it]

I'd love to see that coming into being- all primary schools made Gaelscoileanna- but I don't reckon you'd have enough teachers able to xo everything in Irish.. As it is, and this is going by a friend of mine who's a primary school teacher and who is really passionate about it, one of the problems is that the teachers themselves are weak at Irish.

I'm definitely not saying it's a waste of time teaching Irishat primary school obviously- the earlier the exposure the better, but I think we should be concentrating on quality. So I'd like to see really passionate Irish language speakers and teachers going in for a couple of hours a week and giving really good Irish tuition that would have the same effect as 20 hours of their normal teacher.

[me_right_one]

You should start a petition dlopfen

[dlofnep]

I'd rather just get a discussion going on the topic for now See what fresh ideas are out there!

[conchubhar1]

well if students have 55% for being able to hold a decent convo for 10 minutes and answer simple questions on a 10 minute aural comphrension they will do the work

the teacher will of course concentrate more on these two as they are by far the biggest parts in relation to marks and ease of getting those marks

[conchubhar1]

Originally Posted by dlofnep

I don't even believe that exams in Irish are all that important. I would argue that removal of mandatory examination may put less stress on people and may entice more people to learn the language. Perhaps examination could be optional for those who wanted to attend courses which required Irish. I'm not 100% on this yet though, so don't quote me. Still pondering about it as I read about linguistics.

that will not work

for example, me, i would not have sat the irish exam 2 years ago and now i would be one of the biggest advocates of irish and am doing it in college.

people just wont sit and therefore not study/learn a subject/language if they dont have to

fair enough about the underlined part

------
primary school needs to buck the **** up in regards to irish

i was in college before i knew about the tuiseal ginideach (actualy knew about it - obviously i used it in phrases but only like a parrot) and 1/4 of the tenses ffs

[dlofnep]

I think it's debatable when you think of how many people can't hold a conversation 6 months after finishing their oral.

Like I said, I'm not 100% yet on it - I'm still studying and coming to different conclusions everyday. But perhaps if we made exams optional at leaving cert level, it would take the pressure away from learning exam related stuff like poems - and give more time to relax and learn conversational type stuff. An optional exam would be there for someone who wanted to do it. Extra marks may still be considered. Not sure yet.

It's worth discussing at least.

[me_right_one]

If all the primary schools did everything exclusively in Irish, then after 8 years, the secondary schools could follow suit. The first of the totally Irish speaking generation, who would be coming through to secondary, could just seamlessly transition into secondary and continue their education, and their everyday spech, through Irish. Then there would be no need for an Irish exam at all, or a least not one like the present one. It would be more akin to the current english exam. No extra points or anything like that. Irish wold be this generations' mainstream language.

Then, when we're all in our eighties, and everybody in the republic is speaking as Gaeilge, they would be saying things like "Poor aul me_right_one, talking english through his senility. Sure thats what he knew", in Irish of course! And they would be discussing english orals on boards!

I'd love to see the day.

[conchubhar1]

if the exam is optional - 1% or less would do it and people would not optionaly learn to speak irish in place of studying for the exam

me_right_one - i would honestly give me left one to see that happen but it is not feasible and not even remotely likely to happen, ever.

[me_right_one]

I'd give them both and jump on them aswell. It'll happen if people want it to. Who would've thought only 150 years ago, when the tables were completely the other way round, that we'd all be here using english!

[B0X]

Originally Posted by me_right_one

If all the primary schools did everything exclusively in Irish, then after 8 years, the secondary schools could follow suit.

This assumes that all secondary teachers speak fluent Irish which is far from reality.