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22-01-2013, 19:18   #46
An Ri rua
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Originally Posted by uli84 View Post
true, however had it at 1 for most of last month since the apt was unoccupied pretty much and still got quite a hefty bill, so the hope is when it's on 3 or 4 from now on it wont be 3or4 times higher bill, sure will see thx
You could not have got a hefty bill from having a storage heater set at 1 on input. Unless you were also running the convector fan. Trust me. Use the calculators on Electric Ireland's website and you'll see. On max for 2 months, each 1.8kw storage heater costs approx 65-70 IIRC.

Electricity has got much dearer. Standing charges alone are hefty.

Edit https://www.electricireland.ie/ei/re...alculators.jsp

Last edited by An Ri rua; 23-01-2013 at 17:57.
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23-01-2013, 16:44   #47
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awww, that got me worried now, I have to investigate so , cheers
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23-01-2013, 18:06   #48
MMAGirl
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It's not just one setting that determines your bill. It's a combination of both input and output.
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23-01-2013, 18:20   #49
An Ri rua
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Originally Posted by MMAGirl View Post
It's not just one setting that determines your bill. It's a combination of both input and output.
That's not true at all. The output is just a flap, a physical flap that lets heat out after a ceramic brick has been heated up all night on cheaper electricity.

Its really not on for people to be saying things that aren't true. If you don't know what you're talking about, say nothing. Input costs you electricity, output gives you heat (depending on when you want it) and the convector heater is completely separate. If you are wrong, you're costing people money by giving bad advice.

How exactly do you think output affects your bill ??

Last edited by An Ri rua; 23-01-2013 at 18:32.
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23-01-2013, 20:01   #50
MMAGirl
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Originally Posted by An Ri rua View Post

That's not true at all. The output is just a flap, a physical flap that lets heat out after a ceramic brick has been heated up all night on cheaper electricity.

Its really not on for people to be saying things that aren't true. If you don't know what you're talking about, say nothing. Input costs you electricity, output gives you heat (depending on when you want it) and the convector heater is completely separate. If you are wrong, you're costing people money by giving bad advice.

How exactly do you think output affects your bill ??
Oh Jesus help us.
One of the most uninformed posts I've ever read.
Please follow your own advice - if you don't know what you are talking about say nothing.

I think you'll find that my last post was indeed fact, if you bother to inform yourself before putting both feet in your mouth.

Last edited by MMAGirl; 23-01-2013 at 20:04.
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24-01-2013, 00:31   #51
An Ri rua
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Originally Posted by MMAGirl View Post
Oh Jesus help us.
One of the most uninformed posts I've ever read.
Please follow your own advice - if you don't know what you are talking about say nothing.

I think you'll find that my last post was indeed fact, if you bother to inform yourself before putting both feet in your mouth.
Maybe you should report my post then? I have reported yours much earlier as I think you haven't a CLUE about storage heaters and are misleading innocent people and could end up costing them money.

So explain? How does changing the output cost more money? It doesn't and the fact is you have not an iota of how a storage heater works. The fact that you believe you do is very worrying. I've asked the Mods to have someone step in here who has discussed Storage heaters at length; as what you're offering, confidence and 100% clueless info, is detrimental to others trying to learn how to use a SIMPLE solution.

You never did explain how the Output dial can increase your bill??? Considering your cocky retort (clueless and confident go hand in hand), I await your response with bated breath.

Here is my evidence. Looking forward to your 'evidence' @MMAGirl.

http://www.adactushousing.co.uk/Information/62#chapterLink5

"Output Dial

This is the setting that controls the level of heat released into the room. Typically this should be set at number 1 during the day when not so much heat is needed, then turned up in the evening to release more heat if it is required. When the output control is set at 1 the storage heater will gradually release heat throughout the day. Turning the output dial up will release more heat. When leaving the home throughout the day always return the dial back to 1.

This will ensure that the heater will retain enough heat to be released through until the end of the evening. Try to ensure by the end of the evening the storage heater has completely run out of heat. When the heat runs out and the heater has no more heat to release, before going to bed return the output dial to 1. This means that the settings will be set to work correctly the following morning."

DO YOU UNDERSTAND @MMAGirl? God, I hope so after this. Jesus only helps those who seek, child.





Storage Heating for people like @MMAGirl: -

http://www.adactushousing.co.uk/Information/62

"Setting your storage heating controls

Input Dial – (can also be called Charge or Auto-set Control). The input dial controls how much electricity is absorbed and stored by the heater during the night, ready to warm your home the next day. The first time you use your heating system, set the input control to between 4 and 6.

You will then be able to gauge if you have stored enough electricity throughout the night to last right the way through the day. If the heating runs out throughout the day, you will know to set the dial to 6 for the next night, as more electricity will need to be stored to enable heating to last throughout the day.

If on the first day of heating you find that there is plenty of heating to last throughout the day, turn the input dial down slightly. Continue to do this until you find the correct input level for your lifestyle. There is no point paying for the heater to absorb electricity throughout the night if you are not using all of it."



If you have any difficulties, with this, hit Google and try "Output dial storage heater".

We are ready for your explanation. Of course, being cocky, you won't apologise for not knowing but blustering on anyway and misleading others; even when challenged.



PS

http://www.cse.org.uk/pages/skills/a...storage-heater More spoofmerchants, this time from the Centre for Sustainable Energy. They think the Output dial doesn't cost ya money either!! You will have a busy day on the twitter machine and the email machine setting them straight @MMAGirl. I am sure they will also enjoy your precision and technical prowess......

Night storage heaters: a simple guide

"Most storage heaters are wall-mounted and look a bit like radiators. They work by drawing electricity over the course of a few hours at night, and storing it as heat in a ‘bank’ of clay or ceramic bricks to use the following day. The advantage is that they can consume electricity at night – when it’s cheap – and then give out the heat many hours later.

As a consequence they work best if the household is on an Economy 7 tariff. This is an arrangement with an energy supplier by which the electricity that a household uses at night is much cheaper than that used during the day – typically about a third of the price.

The hours of cheap electricity are normally from 12 midnight until 07.00 in winter, and from 01.00 to 08.00 in summer, although this can vary. For more information about Economy 7 click here.

Every storage heater has a set of simple controls. An input setting allows you to regulate the amount of heat that the heater stores during the night. This is important because, even though night-rate electricity is cheap, there’s no point paying for more than you need. If it’s not particularly cold, or you’ll be out of the house for most of the day, you don’t need to set the input to maximum because there’s no point storing so much heat. Most storage heaters will only charge up at night, so there is no danger of using expensive day-rate electricity.

The controls also have an output setting that allows you to regulate the amount of heat that the storage heater gives off. It means you don’t have to use up all the stored heat at once, but can let it out gradually, saving some for the evening if you want to.

Some storage heaters have a timer that gives you even more control over the output. It allows you, for example, to programme your heater to come on at a time that suits you, for example when you get up in the morning or just before you get back from work. Others include a control that regulates the amount of charge the heater draws at night, depending on the temperature.

Some storage heaters have a ‘boost’ setting. This doesn’t use ‘cheap-rate’ stored heat, but uses ‘peak-rate’ electricity directly from the mains, so it should only be used if the stored heat has run out.

CASE STUDY: Jack and Gwen’s storage heater

Jack and Gwen are a retired couple living in a rural area. They are off the mains gas network and use electricity for their heating and hot water. They have storage heaters to take advantage of the Economy 7 tariff that they have chosen.

In winter, they are in for most of the day. This means they want the storage heater to charge fully at night, so they set the input to ‘6’ and the output to ‘1’ or ‘off’. In the morning, to warm the house up, they turn the output to ‘4’. Once the house is warm, they turn it down to 2, and in the evening when it becomes chillier, they turn it up to 5 or 6 to use up the remaining stored heat.

Storage heater tips for lower bills
The output setting of your storage heater should be turned off at night and also turned off when you are out of the room or out of the house
Don’t use the boost setting except when you really need the extra heat
Avoid using supplementary plug-in heaters – it’s better to turn up the input on your storage heater and store more heat."

That is some mad sh1t there Ted.....

Last edited by An Ri rua; 24-01-2013 at 00:49.
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24-01-2013, 08:27   #52
MMAGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ri rua View Post

Maybe you should report my post then? I have reported yours much earlier as I think you haven't a CLUE about storage heaters and are misleading innocent people and could end up costing them money.

So explain? How does changing the output cost more money? It doesn't and the fact is you have not an iota of how a storage heater works. The fact that you believe you do is very worrying. I've asked the Mods to have someone step in here who has discussed Storage heaters at length; as what you're offering, confidence and 100% clueless info, is detrimental to others trying to learn how to use a SIMPLE solution.

You never did explain how the Output dial can increase your bill??? Considering your cocky retort (clueless and confident go hand in hand), I await your response with bated breath.

Here is my evidence. Looking forward to your 'evidence' @MMAGirl.

http://www.adactushousing.co.uk/Information/62#chapterLink5

"Output Dial

This is the setting that controls the level of heat released into the room. Typically this should be set at number 1 during the day when not so much heat is needed, then turned up in the evening to release more heat if it is required. When the output control is set at 1 the storage heater will gradually release heat throughout the day. Turning the output dial up will release more heat. When leaving the home throughout the day always return the dial back to 1.

This will ensure that the heater will retain enough heat to be released through until the end of the evening. Try to ensure by the end of the evening the storage heater has completely run out of heat. When the heat runs out and the heater has no more heat to release, before going to bed return the output dial to 1. This means that the settings will be set to work correctly the following morning."

DO YOU UNDERSTAND @MMAGirl? God, I hope so after this. Jesus only helps those who seek, child.





Storage Heating for people like @MMAGirl: -

http://www.adactushousing.co.uk/Information/62

"Setting your storage heating controls

Input Dial – (can also be called Charge or Auto-set Control). The input dial controls how much electricity is absorbed and stored by the heater during the night, ready to warm your home the next day. The first time you use your heating system, set the input control to between 4 and 6.

You will then be able to gauge if you have stored enough electricity throughout the night to last right the way through the day. If the heating runs out throughout the day, you will know to set the dial to 6 for the next night, as more electricity will need to be stored to enable heating to last throughout the day.

If on the first day of heating you find that there is plenty of heating to last throughout the day, turn the input dial down slightly. Continue to do this until you find the correct input level for your lifestyle. There is no point paying for the heater to absorb electricity throughout the night if you are not using all of it."



If you have any difficulties, with this, hit Google and try "Output dial storage heater".

We are ready for your explanation. Of course, being cocky, you won't apologise for not knowing but blustering on anyway and misleading others; even when challenged.



PS

http://www.cse.org.uk/pages/skills/advice/energy-advice-leaflets/using-a-night-storage-heater More spoofmerchants, this time from the Centre for Sustainable Energy. They think the Output dial doesn't cost ya money either!! You will have a busy day on the twitter machine and the email machine setting them straight @MMAGirl. I am sure they will also enjoy your precision and technical prowess......

Night storage heaters: a [COLOR="Red"]simple[/COLOR] guide

"Most storage heaters are wall-mounted and look a bit like radiators. They work by drawing electricity over the course of a few hours at night, and storing it as heat in a ‘bank’ of clay or ceramic bricks to use the following day. The advantage is that they can consume electricity at night – when it’s cheap – and then give out the heat many hours later.

As a consequence they work best if the household is on an Economy 7 tariff. This is an arrangement with an energy supplier by which the electricity that a household uses at night is much cheaper than that used during the day – typically about a third of the price.

The hours of cheap electricity are normally from 12 midnight until 07.00 in winter, and from 01.00 to 08.00 in summer, although this can vary. For more information about Economy 7 click here.

Every storage heater has a set of simple controls. An input setting allows you to regulate the amount of heat that the heater stores during the night. This is important because, even though night-rate electricity is cheap, there’s no point paying for more than you need. If it’s not particularly cold, or you’ll be out of the house for most of the day, you don’t need to set the input to maximum because there’s no point storing so much heat. Most storage heaters will only charge up at night, so there is no danger of using expensive day-rate electricity.

The controls also have an output setting that allows you to regulate the amount of heat that the storage heater gives off. It means you don’t have to use up all the stored heat at once, but can let it out gradually, saving some for the evening if you want to.

Some storage heaters have a timer that gives you even more control over the output. It allows you, for example, to programme your heater to come on at a time that suits you, for example when you get up in the morning or just before you get back from work. Others include a control that regulates the amount of charge the heater draws at night, depending on the temperature.

Some storage heaters have a ‘boost’ setting. This doesn’t use ‘cheap-rate’ stored heat, but uses ‘peak-rate’ electricity directly from the mains, so it should only be used if the stored heat has run out.

CASE STUDY: Jack and Gwen’s storage heater

Jack and Gwen are a retired couple living in a rural area. They are off the mains gas network and use electricity for their heating and hot water. They have storage heaters to take advantage of the Economy 7 tariff that they have chosen.

In winter, they are in for most of the day. This means they want the storage heater to charge fully at night, so they set the input to ‘6’ and the output to ‘1’ or ‘off’. In the morning, to warm the house up, they turn the output to ‘4’. Once the house is warm, they turn it down to 2, and in the evening when it becomes chillier, they turn it up to 5 or 6 to use up the remaining stored heat.

Storage heater tips for lower bills
The output setting of your storage heater should be turned off at night and also turned off when you are out of the room or out of the house
Don’t use the boost setting except when you really need the extra heat
Avoid using supplementary plug-in heaters – it’s better to turn up the input on your storage heater and store more heat."

That is some mad sh1t there Ted.....
Why would I report your post. It's not a crime to post rubbish. But be sure that you are posting rubbish. Hard to take for you it seems.

If I were you I would learn a thing or two about energy and not depend in what people post on the Internet for correct info.
You really are making an idiot of yourself I the last few posts.

If you have a tap fully open pouring into a sealed barrel what happens when the barrel gets full?
The water flows out of the barrel.
So then you put a lid on the barrel with a hole of say 3 inches diameter on it. And the water flows out.
Then you make the hole 1 inch. What happens the flow into the barrel.
Ah I couldn't be bother explaining this any further. Flesh out that example yourself. If you want you can alter for incoming and outgoing pressure, leaks etc.

At the end of the excercise you will come
To the conclusion that both input and output effect how much energy is used.

How is here room for more energy when non, or even just less (given leakage anyway) than what's going in is going out once the heating blocks are fully charged.

Ask yourself what the thermostat on your storage heater is doing and how this is effected by output.

Or just ask twitter and then accuse others of giving misinformation in the same post as you are giving misinformation yourself

Last edited by MMAGirl; 24-01-2013 at 08:30.
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24-01-2013, 15:21   #53
An Ri rua
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This is a joke. You are discussing the devi-reg and not the Output switch. You are patently confusing things that you think you know about. The Devi reg acts as the thermostat. I have not seen a storage heater with a thermostat on it; apart form the convector function.

Why report a post? When someone is misleading others. I suggest that you do. And we'll get to the bottom of this.

Unless you're talking about having the Output flap open at 6 all night, then you're not talking in the real world when using your bucket analogy. ANYONE who knows anything about storage heaters will have the Input set to 1 or 0 overnight, i.e the lowest setting possible. Your pedantic example can only mean you do not understand the charging function on a storage heater or you believe that they charge at times other than that controlled by the meter and guided by the true thermostat, the Devi Reg. I give concrete proof and you insult me by calling me an idiot and then proceed to give a Junior Cert lesson in physics to all of us and to me, an oil industry professional. My my, you ARE confident. Must be from your username...

In simple terms, input controls how much electricity you burn and output is when the heat is released. That is the general rule. What you 'may' be referring to is someone (for some DAFT reason) running the Output at 6 all night while they sleep (or perhaps another occupant needs the heat overnight as they are on shift) but generally, for most apartment-dwellers, working or unemployed, the advice given by me and backed by TWO reputable sources (there's lots more for delusional people who need it) clashes with the drivel that you are proposing. And yet you stand over it. I asked for evidence and you give more self-confident drivel that has no sources to back it up and no practical value to Boardsies concerned over their bills. That is absolutely pathetic for a Boardsie and poor form that you are misleading others and can't even see when reputable sources show you up as a self-confident clueless about energy usage amateur.

Last edited by An Ri rua; 24-01-2013 at 15:32.
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24-01-2013, 18:10   #54
MMAGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ri rua View Post
This is a joke. You are discussing the devi-reg and not the Output switch. You are patently confusing things that you think you know about. The Devi reg acts as the thermostat. I have not seen a storage heater with a thermostat on it; apart form the convector function.

Why report a post? When someone is misleading others. I suggest that you do. And we'll get to the bottom of this.

Unless you're talking about having the Output flap open at 6 all night, then you're not talking in the real world when using your bucket analogy. ANYONE who knows anything about storage heaters will have the Input set to 1 or 0 overnight, i.e the lowest setting possible. Your pedantic example can only mean you do not understand the charging function on a storage heater or you believe that they charge at times other than that controlled by the meter and guided by the true thermostat, the Devi Reg. I give concrete proof and you insult me by calling me an idiot and then proceed to give a Junior Cert lesson in physics to all of us and to me, an oil industry professional. My my, you ARE confident. Must be from your username...

In simple terms, input controls how much electricity you burn and output is when the heat is released. That is the general rule. What you 'may' be referring to is someone (for some DAFT reason) running the Output at 6 all night while they sleep (or perhaps another occupant needs the heat overnight as they are on shift) but generally, for most apartment-dwellers, working or unemployed, the advice given by me and backed by TWO reputable sources (there's lots more for delusional people who need it) clashes with the drivel that you are proposing. And yet you stand over it. I asked for evidence and you give more self-confident drivel that has no sources to back it up and no practical value to Boardsies concerned over their bills. That is absolutely pathetic for a Boardsie and poor form that you are misleading others and can't even see when reputable sources show you up as a self-confident clueless about energy usage amateur.
You're putting in a lot of effort to argue against my simple point that it is both input and output together that will have an influence on cost.
You are getting quite scary actually.

I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMAGirl View Post
It's not just one setting that determines your bill. It's a combination of both input and output.
You said
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ri rua View Post
That's not true at all. The output is just a flap, a physical flap that lets heat out after a ceramic brick has been heated up all night on cheaper electricity.

Its really not on for people to be saying things that aren't true. If you don't know what you're talking about, say nothing. Input costs you electricity, output gives you heat (depending on when you want it) and the convector heater is completely separate. If you are wrong, you're costing people money by giving bad advice.

How exactly do you think output affects your bill ??
Keep digging if you want.

Let me say it again.
Both input and output together influence how much electricity a storage heater uses.
It really is Simple.

you claim the output setting has no effect on consumption. Think about it. Really.
And if as you say you have given "concrete proof". Call CERN right now. They would love to hear about how the laws of thermodynamics have changed. You'll get the nobel prize for that one.

Pop quiz. What do we call the component that shuts off a system based on temperature?

Are you actually claiming to be an expert on storage heaters? Please say you are not advising people on their purchases.

Last edited by MMAGirl; 24-01-2013 at 18:21.
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24-01-2013, 19:51   #55
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Guys- quit it.
Sniping at one another isn't going to answer anyone's questions, or educate anyone.

The point that was being made- correct me if I'm wrong- is that the number of units of energy consumed by the storage heater (aka its input) determines its running cost. Obviously you have the option of using daytime or nighttime units, and you can also specify the output of the heater to either a higher or lower temperature- which you can intelligently specify to minimise your costs- but the actually energy converted by the unit into heat- determines its running costs.

No-one is arguing about the laws of thermodynamics, conservation of energy or any other fundamental laws of physics- so please stop lobbing grenades at one another.

Now- please leave it at that.
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25-01-2013, 09:17   #56
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Originally Posted by smccarrick View Post
Guys- quit it.
Sniping at one another isn't going to answer anyone's questions, or educate anyone.

The point that was being made- correct me if I'm wrong- is that the number of units of energy consumed by the storage heater (aka its input) determines its running cost. Obviously you have the option of using daytime or nighttime units, and you can also specify the output of the heater to either a higher or lower temperature- which you can intelligently specify to minimise your costs- but the actually energy converted by the unit into heat- determines its running costs.

No-one is arguing about the laws of thermodynamics, conservation of energy or any other fundamental laws of physics- so please stop lobbing grenades at one another.

Now- please leave it at that.
Actually my point was simply this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMAGirl View Post
It's not just one setting that determines your bill. It's a combination of both input and output.
Thats what An Ri Rua has the problem understanding.

Energy converted into heat determines your bill, but output, be it settings or leakage is equally as important on how much energy is converted to heat.

An Ri Rua is advising people that output has no effect and then accusing me of being the one costing them money.
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25-01-2013, 10:32   #57
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Ok- I give up. I'm closing this thread.
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