Can I Use Silicone Here, Rather Than Grout & Adhesive? (Crude Pic Attached) - boards.ie
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20-04-2009, 00:53   #1
Mark#1
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Can I Use Silicone Here, Rather Than Grout & Adhesive? (Crude Pic Attached)

Just as I hoped to get stuck into setting up my new AV gear on Saturday, my ensuite shower started leaking on Friday night.

Had to spend Saturday & Sunday ripping out the shower tray, the electric shower, and the old tiles & plasterboard and fitting new ply and lashing 3 tubes of silicone everywhere.

Gonna buy & fit new tiles tomorrow and have this question:

In the area marked "A" in this pic, could I use silicone instead of adhesive? And instead of grout between the vertical gaps of the bottom course, could I use silicone instead of grout?



I've exaggerated things a little to hopefully better illustrate what I mean.

I'd be using silicone in the area marked "B" anyway, but I think I fancy the idea of silicone everywhere down there rather than adhesive, unless somone out there can tell me why that'd be a bad idea?


Thanks for any replies,

Mark
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20-04-2009, 09:24   #2
CJhaughey
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You can get pvc *flashing* for the tiled edge, this would be preferable to the way you have illustrated as there will be less potential for capillary action drawing water up behind the tiles.
If it was my job I would cut the bottom course of tiles so they fitted flush with the rest, and then use a flashing to finish the bottom so that water would not find it's way up and behind the tiles.
Not sure if this is your problem but I have found that a lot of leaks are caused by the fibreglass tray cracking around the waste, the glass is very thin here and it cracks easily.
I would not use silicone as it tends to go black with fungal growth.
I know that you can get fungal resistant silicones but silicone has no real strength, some other adhesives are much stronger Tec-7 for one or Elasto-seal.
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20-04-2009, 13:50   #3
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Thanks for your reply CJ.

Do you mean similar flashing to the trim piece you'd use between a bath edge and the wall?

Like the "Bath Seal Plus" or "Bath Seal Tileover" in this link?

http://www.arcbuildingproducts.ie/ti...0&%20seals.htm


The tray is fine - the grout between the lower courses of tiles had been secretely degrading, even though it looked fine from a showerer's eye view. I was able to pull the tiles free with lumps of sodden plasterboard attached.

I got some Tec7 today when I bought the tiles.

Thanks again,

Mark
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20-04-2009, 15:31   #4
CJhaughey
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Classi-seal is the stuff apparently
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20-04-2009, 16:48   #5
Joey the lips
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Yes you can but your creating another problem which is going to be a right bitch when it comes to fitting the shower door. Do you see the way you show the tile as being kicked out. This should not be, the lips on the shower tray should be in line with the plasterboard so the tile slips straight down on it.

Your prob going to tell me this is the way you seen it fitted before and yest shoddy builders and plumbers do fit it this way. Thats why you gt problems

I fit these for a living up to last year if you want any more advice I am free. Just remember me when your rich and famous and of course PM me as I dont think we are allowed specialist advice

PS: If you use silicone you will need to add a lot of admix to the grout to make it very flexible so try get the problem right to avoid a continuance
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20-04-2009, 19:33   #6
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Originally Posted by CJhaughey View Post
Classi-seal is the stuff apparently
No its not in this case sorry. brilliant product but its fitted to the tray before the tray is fitted. Its the same as the upstand.

If your ever DIYING this is the way to go.
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20-04-2009, 21:57   #7
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Just a quick question regarding this problem for the experts. I've seen it many times in Flats and bedsits and have always suspected it's tenants going two up in the shower,in other words doubling the weight the tray is used to,cracking the grout and silicon and causing a leak. Is that a contributing factor?
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20-04-2009, 22:08   #8
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Just a quick question regarding this problem for the experts. I've seen it many times in Flats and bedsits and have always suspected it's tenants going two up in the shower,in other words doubling the weight the tray is used to,cracking the grout and silicon and causing a leak. Is that a contributing factor?

No. A badly fit product is the problem. Just for the record. I live in a timber frame house, With very flexible floors. I knew this when I moved in so had my tray redone cause I knew it would not take my wait never mind mine and my wifes or when my kids jump up and down,

A try fitted correctly will take the weight, The acrylic all plastic trays have faded out. You tend to get stone resin or stone resin with acrylic caps to keep your feet warm

As for being an expert I have been buying selling and fitting bathrooms for 10 years I have seen it all
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20-04-2009, 23:29   #9
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Good stuff there guys.

You're right Joey, about the kicked-out bottom course and the wall strips that the doors fit into: I've overcome this by using a strip of plastic 10mm or so thick by 18mm or so wide.

I put a bead of Tec7 the full length of the strip, then screwed the strip to the ply that I replaced the destroyed plasterboard with. I put another bead of Tec7 the full length of that strip of plastic and then replaced the shower door wall strips on top of the plastic strips. It's all pretty solid and with two full tubes of Tec7 used, I'm pretty confident it'll be watertight.

The bath bead idea won't work - they're too wide. It looks like I may have to just tile down on top of the tray top and lash the silicone in.

This even cruder "pic" shows the ideal seal product I need:

|
|_
...|
...|

The tiles would sit outside (to the right of) the upper half and the bottom half would come out over the tray lip. Does such a seal exist?


Thanks for all your replies.

Yet again: YAY FORUMS!

Mark
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21-04-2009, 09:00   #10
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Originally Posted by Mark#1 View Post
Good stuff there guys.

You're right Joey, about the kicked-out bottom course and the wall strips that the doors fit into: I've overcome this by using a strip of plastic 10mm or so thick by 18mm or so wide.

I put a bead of Tec7 the full length of the strip, then screwed the strip to the ply that I replaced the destroyed plasterboard with. I put another bead of Tec7 the full length of that strip of plastic and then replaced the shower door wall strips on top of the plastic strips. It's all pretty solid and with two full tubes of Tec7 used, I'm pretty confident it'll be watertight.

The bath bead idea won't work - they're too wide. It looks like I may have to just tile down on top of the tray top and lash the silicone in.

This even cruder "pic" shows the ideal seal product I need:

|
|_
...|
...|

The tiles would sit outside (to the right of) the upper half and the bottom half would come out over the tray lip. Does such a seal exist?


Thanks for all your replies.

Yet again: YAY FORUMS!

Mark
I am not to sure what you mean but you sound like you have it sorted. If your stuck again let me know.

Thanks
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21-04-2009, 12:02   #11
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not wishing to hijack thread but Joey the lips would you know where to obtain classi-seal in dublin/kildare areas. Would chadwicks supply etc tks
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21-04-2009, 12:16   #12
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not wishing to hijack thread but Joey the lips would you know where to obtain classi-seal in dublin/kildare areas. Would chadwicks supply etc tks

yes. I have PM'D you be very careful to use it before you put the tray in. Its a bitumus seal so it neads a clean surface. I would use white spirit to make sure all the residue is gone.
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29-04-2009, 23:11   #13
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Thanks for your replies folks - job's done and I have more confidence in what I've done than in the job the "professionals" originally did, after seeing what happened.

FWIW, my home insurance wouldn't cover the problem because it was due to either poor workmanship or faulty materials, rather than a burst or leaking pipe or fitting.

I'm sure I could have told porkies and somehow got them to pay for it, but telling the truth and doing the work myself will undoubtedly gain me a couple of points in the karma stakes . . .


Anyway, thanks again,

Mark
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30-04-2009, 08:25   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark#1 View Post
Thanks for your replies folks - job's done and I have more confidence in what I've done than in the job the "professionals" originally did, after seeing what happened.

FWIW, my home insurance wouldn't cover the problem because it was due to either poor workmanship or faulty materials, rather than a burst or leaking pipe or fitting.

I'm sure I could have told porkies and somehow got them to pay for it, but telling the truth and doing the work myself will undoubtedly gain me a couple of points in the karma stakes . . .


Anyway, thanks again,

Mark
Good job, did you get the door on ok? Just keep an eye on the tiles at the base for cracking if they do you can either use grout with a load of addmix to give it flexability or grey silicone tbh but if i were using grey silicone I would just regout and cover it in silicone but this is not the professional way,

well done, any pictures?
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