[Sierra Oscar]

Union officials of the "Civil Public and Services Union" are to ballot their members as to whether they should go ahead with a one day stoppage on February 26th. According to a number of sources, Garda Stations will be affected if this occurs.

In what way would they be affected?

Union considers industrial action over levy

Some 13,000 lower paid civil servants will hold a one day work stoppage on Thursday, 26 February across all public services if a ballot for industrial action is passed.

The Civil and Public Services Union is to ballot its members for industrial action up to and including strike action in protest at the Government's introduction of a pension levy to fund their guaranteed state pensions.

The result of the ballot is expected on 19 February.

The union is also organising a demonstration outside the Dáil on 18 February.

The nationwide stoppage would take place a week later and It would affect services in all areas of the public service, including garda stations, social welfare offices, and tax offices.


CPSU Deputy General Secretary Eoin Ronayne said the union is now discussing what form its protest campaign will take, and it could include industrial action.

He described the cuts as unbalanced.

The Irish Nurses Organisation has said all options should be considered to force the Government to think again about the planned pension levy.

The union said it expects a nationwide response across the public sector but added that nobody wants industrial action.

Following a three-hour special meeting of its executive, INO General Secretary Liam Doran said the pension levy was an onerous and regressive tax on nurses and the public sector.

The union is to advise its 40,000 nurses and midwives to lobby TDs and senators on the issue.

Mr Doran said the INO would play its full part in whatever campaign is decided tomorrow by the Irish Congress of Trade Union's Public Services Committee.

He said the issue has generated the most reaction among nurses and midwives of any topic in recent years.


The INO has said as the levy will apply to all public servants, any response to the decision by Government must be collective if it is to achieve a more equitable outcome.

Last month, the union wrote to Minister for Health Mary Harney saying it had received comprehensive legal advice that any attempt by Government to reduce the pay of nurses and midwives can be successfully resisted.

The INO said it would not accept measures which affect increments, allowances or unsocial hours' payments.

It added it was committed to taking whatever action is necessary to protect members' interests in the face of any attack on existing pay levels.


The IMPACT trade union is to meet five Mayo TDs, including Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny, to outline the impact the pensions' levy will have on its members.

This week's meetings will also allow union leaders to collectively decide on their response to the collapse of social partnership talks last week.

Any action over levy 'disappointing' - Cowen

The Taoiseach has said industrial action in the civil and public sector as a result of the pensions levy would be disappointing.

He said decisions made last week by the Government were made in the interest of economy.

Mr Cowen said he hopes it is the intention that public services are not affected if any action is decided on.

He was speaking in Tallaght in Dublin after he attended the signing of a contract for an extension of the LUAS Red Line in the area.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0209/pensions.html

[timmywex]

While i dont agree with the levy in any way, people and the unions just have to deal with it and get on with it. The country is in a receession and it should be expected that a drop in living standards will occur!

Im sure no one in the government wants to make these cuts/levies but at the end of the day the money just isnt there anymore!

Itll be a hard few years for everyone in the country, the government just wont roll back on this one, they have no money to be able to roll back and international credit ratings and the likes would be severly affected!

I do still think this levy doesnt tax the high earners enough.
The area that should be taxed alot are the high earners in the private sector who havnt been hit at all!

[Eru]

Originally Posted by timmywex

While i dont agree with the levy in any way, people and the unions just have to deal with it and get on with it. The country is in a receession and it should be expected that a drop in living standards will occur!

Im sure no one in the government wants to make these cuts/levies but at the end of the day the money just isnt there anymore!

Itll be a hard few years for everyone in the country, the government just wont roll back on this one, they have no money to be able to roll back and international credit ratings and the likes would be severly affected!

I do still think this levy doesnt tax the high earners enough.
The area that should be taxed alot are the high earners in the private sector who havnt been hit at all!

Agree with what your saying fully but I dont think you can expect the public sector to take the hit when there is, as yet, no sign of a similar hit in the private sector or more importantly, welfare.

If the government announced an initiative across all sectors to reduce expenses and help get the country back on its feet you would probable see the public sector agree.

[goldie fish]

I am writing to express my outrage at the “Pensions Levy” this Government proposes to impose on civil and public servants.
I would like to point out the following information:

The 2nd Benchmarking Report in 2008 resulted in 300,000 public servants and 100,000 retired public servants receiving a pay award of 0%.
This report stated “A discount of up to 12.5% was applied because of pension entitlement”.

Because this was not highlighted by the Trade Union movement at the time, the way was left open for the savage attack on our take-home pay which is now being proposed by the Government.

The failure by Trade Union leaders to state at every opportunity that public servants pay 6.5% of their salary for pension in addition to the 12.5% above, created the impression in the public mind that Public Servants did not pay anything for their pension.


Benchmarking has been shamefully described as the “ATM for Public Servants”. The first Benchmarking Report in 2002 was welcomed by IBEC who said at the time “Benchmarking has brought reality into Public Service pay and has stopped leapfrogging and relativities”.

This same Benchmarking process replaced our traditional pay review mechanism.

The “Rolls Royce” Public Service pensions referred to by Turlough O’ Sullivan is as follows
Public Service retiree on pension of €500 per week after 40 year’s service does not get the State Pension of €230 per week. Thus the real additional benefit of the “Rolls Royce”, after working for 40 years, is €270 per week, NOT €500.
Out of this, the pensioner pays VHI, including the levy of €128, and the new 1% income levy (equivalent to €400 per annum).

The separation of the link between Public Service pay and pensions, evident again in this proposed levy, must be stopped.

We as public servants are prepared to take some of the pain of this recession, on an equitable basis, even though we did not receive the gain of the private sector during the Celtic Tiger- large bonuses, company cars, expenses.

Many public servants are on temporary contracts. This is not secure employment.


It is offensive to Public Servants that the private sector is referred to as “the real economy” by Turlough O’Sullivan. The public sector economy is very real to people who are in hospital, children in schools and people who are rescued by firefighters.

Unlike a possible pay cut, the proposed pension levy will not be reversed when the economy picks up.

THIS INFORMATION MUST BE PUT INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS UNFAIR LEVY.
WE DEMAND THAT OUR TRADE UNION LEADERS, WHO ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THIS LEVY AS THEY HAVE PRIVATE, NON-CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS, FIGHT THIS ON OUR BEHALF.
WE DEMAND THAT OUR ELECTED PUBLIC REPRESENTATIVES STOP THIS UNFAIR TREATMENT AND CONCERTED MEDIA CAMPAIGN AGAINST PUBLIC SERVANTS, AND REPRESENT US EQUALLY AND FAIRLY AS THE HARD-WORKING, HONEST, TAX-PAYING CITIZENS THAT WE ARE.

Please copy and email to everybody you know, TODAY, especially your elected representatives, newspapers, television stations and your union head office.
We must act quickly. Remember that ICTU entered the discussions with the Government on the basis that there will be tax increases. These will follow, and we will be hit again, to pay for a problem that we did not create.

Signed: A clerical officer.

[Ruen]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

Union officials of the "Civil Public and Services Union" are to ballot their members as to whether they should go ahead with a one day stoppage on February 26th. According to a number of sources, Garda Stations will be affected if this occurs.

In what way would they be affected?

Civil servants based in certain stations taking part in the stoppage would be how a number of stations would be affected, I dont think it would affect the frontline service too drastically though.

[Eru]

Originally Posted by Ruen

Civil servants based in certain stations taking part in the stoppage would be how a number of stations would be affected, I dont think it would affect the frontline service too drastically though.

Damn it, I might not get my daily reminders!

[goldie fish]

Originally Posted by Eru

Damn it, I might not get my daily reminders!

However, ask yourself, If the civil servants are out, will the GRA and AGSI pass the pickets?
Keep in mind that the Army unions have already said they will not be strikebreakers.
Some Larger stations have civil servants doing much of the Non Garda public work such as traffic fines,etc. Will gardai be expected to do these jobs instead?
Look at the bigger picture. For the most part Clerical officers in the GS are doing jobs that used to be done by "gardai", but for less than half the wage.
Note also that when you ring castlebar, to update the pulse system, it is Clerical officers you are speaking to.


BIGGER PICTURE!

[Eru]

Originally Posted by goldie fish

However, ask yourself, If the civil servants are out, will the GRA and AGSI pass the pickets?
Keep in mind that the Army unions have already said they will not be strikebreakers.
Some Larger stations have civil servants doing much of the Non Garda public work such as traffic fines,etc. Will gardai be expected to do these jobs instead?
Look at the bigger picture. For the most part Clerical officers in the GS are doing jobs that used to be done by "gardai", but for less than half the wage.
Note also that when you ring castlebar, to update the pulse system, it is Clerical officers you are speaking to.


BIGGER PICTURE!

A, Gardai have full access to PULSE and for far longer than the slow agonising and second guessing GISC ever existed. Many members still dont use GISC for incident creation which is all they can do.

B, Half the wages? Just where does that come from?

C, I dont recall the civil service ever once supporting AGS.

D, We arent allowed strike and dont have a union.

E, Why would the army be called into cover the civil service?

F, Gardai are still present in district offices and Chiefs offices.

In Garda stations a one day stoppage will have no impact at all. Possible longer term it may but I would be concentrating on the impact it will have on actual civil service departments such as the courts, social welfare, motor tax and the various other sectors that are 100% civil service.

[Zuppy]

I will answer E,
Army have been used in the past to man bin lorries, or the Bus service. The UK used the Army to break the fire strike.
The Army can be used to aid the civilian power and is to be called out when the population is in danger. ie health is threatened (Bin trucks). Like the AGS they can't strike.

D!
Striking is industrial action of the last resort. There is other action that can be taken.

C!
The Public service has always supported the AGS. Most Public servants wouldn't dare cross a picket line/ Acton line. And most public servants realise that all the services have to look after and help each other. Like we do for day to day stuff, its the same with IR. You already listed Motor Tax, UDC, social etc

[Eru]

Originally Posted by ZuppyLurk

I will answer E,
Army have been used in the past to man bin lorries, or the Bus service. The UK used the Army to break the fire strike.
The Army can be used to aid the civilian power and is to be called out when the population is in danger. ie health is threatened (Bin trucks). Like the AGS they can't strike.

D!
Striking is industrial action of the last resort. There is other action that can be taken.

C!
The Public service has always supported the AGS. Most Public servants wouldn't dare cross a picket line/ Acton line. And most public servants realise that all the services have to look after and help each other. Like we do for day to day stuff, its the same with IR. You already listed Motor Tax, UDC, social etc

I still fail to see your point on this one. They went into the prisons with Gardai. They helped with logistics during flooding and covered fire but thats because they have fire trucks, trucks and have trained staff. They also offered backup at Mayday a while back after being trained in riot control. A soldier wont be looking after anyones paperwork, social welfare payments or sorting out the next court list so come on, stick to relevent facts about the issue.

Im not suggesting the civil service aint important, far from it. Public sector run the country on a day to day basis and yes, a civil servant strike would cause a lot of problems, in fact a long dispute would cause chaos but not in regards Gardai going about their business.

We aint that far along yet for talk of strikes or blue flu but I do agree with you that we either work together or simple accept whatever is thrown our way but remember you also need fire, nurses and all the other assorted public sector employees.

Of course if Killarney goes on strike, well thats another matter

[goldie fish]

Originally Posted by Eru

I still fail to see your point on this one. They went into the prisons with Gardai. They helped with logistics during flooding and covered fire but thats because they have fire trucks, trucks and have trained staff. They also offered backup at Mayday a while back after being trained in riot control. A soldier wont be looking after anyones paperwork, social welfare payments or sorting out the next court list so come on, stick to relevent facts about the issue.

Im not suggesting the civil service aint important, far from it. Public sector run the country on a day to day basis and yes, a civil servant strike would cause a lot of problems, in fact a long dispute would cause chaos but not in regards Gardai going about their business.

We aint that far along yet for talk of strikes or blue flu but I do agree with you that we either work together or simple accept whatever is thrown our way but remember you also need fire, nurses and all the other assorted public sector employees.

Of course if Killarney goes on strike, well thats another matter

Of course killarney will be on strike...On a wednesday!

You seem for some reason to think you are not part of the public sector. Be assured that when Sir Anthonys minions are writing about how the public service are leeching off the private sector and should get pay cuts, they are including the Gardai in that article too. Think of the bigger picture. Will you cross the pickets?
You seem to be saying that you will support nurses or firemen, but not clerical officers?
In my experience, the gardai always held a "them and us" attitude towards the public. However I fear you have forgotten who "US" are.
The following are members of the Public sector, and are going to be the financial whipping boy for the next few years(tax increases expected for the next 2 years)
Civil Servants(including motor tax, and all local authorities).
Court Staff
Teachers
Firemen
Nurses
EMTs
Defence forces
Oh, and
Gardai.

We are all in this together. As far as the media are concerned(and they have been very successful implanting the notion in the public mindset),
We are all overpaid, work short hours, and have massive free pensions, as well as a secure job for life. You still earn twice what I do(I'm only a clerical officer).
Consider too what the civil service in your station actually do? If not in your station, what about District or Divisional HQ?
Who processes your Sub/ot?
Who cleans the puke out of the cell?
PSV?
On the Spot fines?
Court files for State Solr?
DPP?


BIGGER PICTURE!

[timmywex]

Will the defence forces break strikes though?

Personally i dont think they will, theyre in the same boat as any other public services worker!

I remember teh army were used a few years back to break an ambulance service strike over on call, but eventually they just couldnt cross picket lines, i reckon they wont this time, theyre getting and taking the hit aswell. Plus theres not enough of them to keep everything in order!

[Eru]

Originally Posted by goldie fish

You seem for some reason to think you are not part of the public sector. Be assured that when Sir Anthonys minions are writing about how the public service are leeching off the private sector and should get pay cuts, they are including the Gardai in that article too. Think of the bigger picture. Will you cross the pickets?
You seem to be saying that you will support nurses or firemen, but not clerical officers?
In my experience, the gardai always held a "them and us" attitude towards the public. However I fear you have forgotten who "US" are.
The following are members of the Public sector, and are going to be the financial whipping boy for the next few years(tax increases expected for the next 2 years)
Civil Servants(including motor tax, and all local authorities).
Court Staff
Teachers
Firemen
Nurses
EMTs
Defence forces
Oh, and
Gardai.

Isnt that pretty much exactly what I said?

Originally Posted by goldie fish

Consider too what the civil service in your station actually do? If not in your station, what about District or Divisional HQ?

Im in the divisional HQ. I know what they do.

Originally Posted by goldie fish

Who processes your Sub/ot?

A civil servant. Could easily be done by a Garda who was doing it up until about 4 years ago. And thats done once a month. 1 day wont effect it anymore than a bank holiday does.

Originally Posted by goldie fish

Who cleans the puke out of the cell?

Sure as hell not a bloody civil servant! Private contractors who are trained and equiped to sterilise the cells have this contract.

Originally Posted by goldie fish

PSV?

PSV Sergeant.

Originally Posted by goldie fish

On the Spot fines?

Handheld PC which automatically does so on being docked or the parking fines office in Thurles which is Gardai. They are forwarded by a civil servant but again, that was a Garda until about 2 years ago and again, one day wont hurt it.

Originally Posted by goldie fish

Court files for State Solr?
DPP?

Sorry, can you clarify this pls? I do my files for the dpp and state solicitor.

As for wages, compare them, clerical officer: On day 1 you earn €22,609 to a maximum of €36,667. Gardai on day 1 earn €10000 to a maximum of €48,695. Remember a Garda doesnt go on full pay until attestation which is after 1 year and then its at €24,550.
A Garda on 17 years service should earn double a civil servant on day 1! (I dont have 17 years by the way)

Again I repeat, the public sector as a whole unit needs to operate together. I agree 100% on this one but your grossly overestimating how much a one day stopage will effect policing unless the actual Gardai go blue flu.

I think if and I repeat if, theres a strike then it needs to be a unified stoppage on the same day across all sectors of the public sector with Gardai doing blue flu and the army doing whatever it is they do. Then yes your looking at a full disruption to services.

[civdef]

The day the Defence Forces fail to follow orders is the day Ireland becomes a failed state. I don't see it happening.

[Paulzx]

Originally Posted by civdef

The day the Defence Forces fail to follow orders is the day Ireland becomes a failed state. I don't see it happening.

Agreed.

The Army will follow orders and do what it is told to do. Anything else is a mutiny and the last thing this country needs is a Defence Forces mutiny.

However, anybody that thinks the Army has the capability to replace the Fire Services in the event of a Fire Services strike is sorely mistaken. They don't have the training, equipment or experience. Individual soldiers will do their best but it would fall very short of providing an adequate fire service. I would actually worry about the safety of soldiers who would be expected to carry out the duties of trained firefighters.

I have no idea whether these mooted strikes are actually going to happen