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BER referal fees.

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  • 18-11-2008 12:30am
    #1
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭


    I was apporached today by a local Auctoineer who asked about doing BERs for existing houses. He then informed me that he would refer all his clients to me for a % fee of my fee. Another assessor had already offered him 15%. I am furious with this type of behaviour which is nothing more than a racket or scam but is it a) in breech of the assesssors code of coduct or b) in breach of the Auctoneers Code of Conduct. I think its very unethical but what do i do about it? suggestions please.


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    #2
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    It was obvious that something like this was going to happen. However, you can do as you please. Nobodies forcing you to give him a %. Do you believe him when he says hes been offered 15%? Might just be fluff on his part. 15% for turning over a phone number sounds like a lot?
    I don't think its an unethical approach on his part - afterall, they're his contacts. Maybe you should be grateful that he's not going and doing them himself. Will be interesting to see how many of them decide to do them themselves. Lets face it, they have little else to be doing at the moment :D


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    #3
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    No. 6 - I wouldn't be suprised if he was having you on/trying his luck!

    That sort of thing drives me mad!!! I bet you he's not doing very much as he's the sort of guy you wouldn't want to buy a house from!:p


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    #4
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    What a fcukin tosser. :mad: Unfortunatley, that's what tends to happen in this greedy wee country of ours.

    No6, you couldn't get a little tape recorder in your pocket the next time you talk to him? ;)


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    #5
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Eurorunner he's not allowed do BER's for his own clients as an auctoneer. I know he's trying his luck but I don't think he's representing his clients very well in this manner. I bet his clients would be delighted with him if they saw on my invoice a big hefty precentage referal fee for him on top of my fee!! My thoughts exactly smashey!!!:D


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    #6
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    No6 wrote: »
    Eurorunner he's not allowed do BER's for his own clients as an auctoneer.
    Really? Well, thats good news.


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    #7
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    There's always someone looking to get a cut of your hard earned money (even the taxman:eek:) but approaches like this are reprehensible.

    Personally I'd tell him to go fuck himself and then go round and stick a business card on every "for sale" sign he has up (or through the letterbox if the house is still occupied) with a note stating that you you will charge 10% less than what the auctioneer can arrange it for.


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    #8
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    muffler wrote: »
    There's always someone looking to get a cut of your hard earned money (even the taxman:eek:) but approaches like this are reprehensible.

    Personally I'd tell him to go fuck himself and then go round and stick a business card on every "for sale" sign he has up (or through the letterbox if the house is still occupied) with a note stating that you you will charge 10% less than what the auctioneer can arrange it for.

    Well the way I see it is I can a) set my fee at about the same level as everyone else and add his percentage on, or b) opperate at a loss and keep the fees at the same level inculding his "cut". a) dosn't do anything for his clients and b) dosn't do anything for me.

    Personally I think the go Fu*k option is the best one, I can of course then advertise very loudly that I don't pay any auctoneer referal fees I may starve but at least my reputation will be intact!!


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    #9
    Chimpster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭Chimpster


    Lads,

    The domestic BER is going to be a complete jungle.

    1. I have experienced auctioneers who are going to 'rate' each others properties.

    2. I've sat in front of auctioneers who want 15% per referrel.

    3. I've come across a munster based outfit who are reportadly tearing the ar$e off the pricing in this sector.


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    #10
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    So what do we do? let the system become corrupt & discredited before it even starts?


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    #11
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    I have an idea.

    Eamon Ryan (yes, the TD) is a member here. I'll send him a link to this thread and see what he says.


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    #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,983 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    No. 6 - I wouldn't be suprised if he was having you on/trying his luck!

    That sort of thing drives me mad!!! I bet you he's not doing very much as he's the sort of guy you wouldn't want to buy a house from!:p

    hes not trying his luck...

    a local auctioneer that i know very well has already been approached by TWO assessors who have told him that THEY WILL GIVE HIM €100 for every BER he puts their way... these were two separate independant assessors...!!!!

    this kind of action disgusts me.


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    #13
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    smashey wrote: »
    I have an idea.

    Eamon Ryan (yes, the TD) is a member here. I'll send him a link to this thread and see what he says.
    Pm sent. :D


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    #14
    Chimpster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭Chimpster


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    hes not trying his luck...

    a local auctioneer that i know very well has already been approached by TWO assessors who have told him that THEY WILL GIVE HIM €100 for every BER he puts their way... these were two separate independant assessors...!!!!

    this kind of action disgusts me.

    They must be charging a fair whack to be able to give €100 away in a referell!

    Having spoken to auctioneers in around galway in relation to BER you get a real insight into the 'scratch my back' culture that existed in that industry. One can only imagine the scrathing that was going on in the golden years.


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    #15
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,983 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Chimpster wrote: »
    They must be charging a fair whack to be able to give €100 away in a referell!

    Having spoken to auctioneers in around galway in relation to BER you get a real insight into the 'scratch my back' culture that existed in that industry. One can only imagine the scrathing that was going on in the golden years.

    all the auctioneer has to do is tell the clients "it will cost in the region of .... (€500 has already been widely accepted as the fee due to SEI on the Last Word)....

    a healthy living would be made doing two assessments a day at €400 a pop!!


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    #16
    topcatcbr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    Check out the Joe Duffy show at 1pm he is talking about BER


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    #17
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,983 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    anyone listen to this??

    what was the general feeling / public sentiment...


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    #18
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Another bloody tax ( Quote - Joe Duffy ) . Punter complaing about "wild price variations in quotes" . Govt choking small businesses at this difficult time . "What does cert DO for you you already know if your house is warm or cold" cries Joe . Ray H is doing his best but has just been asked " are you going to change my light bulbs for me ? " . Big resentment at being "forced into" energy efficiency" .... stuff like that

    Hands up - who is surprised ?


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    #19
    topcatcbr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    Nobody explained that this is not for the landlord but to give prospective tennants information when renting properties or potential purchasers not builders.

    Where are SEI for this. Surely they were asked to come on.


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    #20
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    Another bloody tax ( Quote - Joe Duffy ) . Punter complaing about "wild price variations in quotes" . Govt choking small businesses at this difficult time . "What does cert DO for you you already know if your house is warm or cold" cries Joe . Ray H is doing his best but has just been asked " are you going to change my light bulbs for me ? " . Big resentment at being "forced into" energy efficiency" .... stuff like that

    Hands up - who is surprised ?

    I hate to say it but he's probably right, the system was invented when the property market was booming, where another few hundred in BER cert fees here and there wouldn't be missed but now that the bubble has burst it will be seen as another tax, blame the greens!! Personally I think the marketing has been all wrong from day one people still don't know that its a standardised method of comapring energy effeciency, it will not save you money yet (maybe when carbon taxes come in??). Its only a label ( a bit of an expensive designer one perhaps "Guicci BER"):D


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    #21
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Chimpster wrote: »
    I have experienced auctioneers who are going to 'rate' each others properties.

    I've heard this too. I've heard that most of the big auctioneers have their in in house guys trained up to carry out carry out assessments on a 'I'll scratch your back, etc., basis' for each other.

    This came from a guy who had set himself up in Dublin and approached most of the auctioneers and they all said no thanks, we're sorted!

    He has since given up and sent back his registration papers to SEI in protest!

    The whole thing is a shambles!


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    #22
    ardara1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭ardara1


    Trying to push this again folks - why are the DEAP/BER issues buried in RENEWABLE ENERGIES - does it not deserve its own spot under construction?
    Mods - are you listening? Would bribery help? :rolleyes:


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    #23
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    I've heard this too. I've heard that most of the big auctioneers have their in in house guys trained up to carry out carry out assessments on a 'I'll scratch your back, etc., basis' for each other.

    This came from a guy who had set himself up in Dublin and approached most of the auctioneers and they all said no thanks, we're sorted!

    He has since given up and sent back his registration papers to SEI in protest!

    The whole thing is a shambles!

    It would appear to be a race to the bottom alright, every time I think of BER, DEAP or renewables all I can hear is dun dun dun dun dun ........^.......... if you know what I mean :D but going back to my original post what is the consensus on what I should do!! Turn down a lot of work (possibly) on the basis that I have a serious ethical question over the retainer being demanded!! or hop into bed with the devil and look after no 1!! :eek:

    I was thinking of saying no problem to the referal fee what ever % you want and I'll just put it on my invoice as a seperate item to his client with his name on it!!! His clients will really love him then!!!:D


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    #24
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    ardara1 wrote: »
    Mods - are you listening? Would bribery help? :rolleyes:
    It would :)

    I'll talk to Mellor & smashey about this but dont hold out any hope on getting it though.


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    #25
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    No6 wrote: »
    It would appear to be a race to the bottom alright, every time I think of BER, DEAP or renewables all I can hear is dun dun dun dun dun ........^.......... if you know what I mean :D but going back to my original post what is the consensus on what I should do!! Turn down a lot of work (possibly) on the basis that I have a serious ethical question over the retainer being demanded!! or hop into bed with the devil and look after no 1!! :eek:

    I was thinking of saying no problem to the referal fee what ever % you want and I'll just put it on my invoice as a seperate item to his client with his name on it!!! His clients will really love him then!!!:D

    I'd look after no. 1 - do what you have to do to get the work (without compromising your integrity/becoming a BER slut!).

    Do you have to tell him excatly how much you are going to charge for the certs - I assume he would not have to see your invoices? Suggest a fixed referal fee to him per cert?

    Like some auctioneers suggest/expect, tell him that you will be doing certs for E 50* (+ expenses), so at 15% he gets E 7.50 but then you just charge the reaminder as expenses (e.g. E 5 per A4 printed page) :rolleyes:

    * I did course on existing dwellings last week - when you get a group of assessors together you hear all sorts of shocking things!!! As suggested above, one assessor got phone call from auctioneer suggesting a great mutual deal - the auctioneer would exclusively get him to do all the BER certs - and he would do them at rate of E 50 per cert. No need to report his answer to that.


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    #26
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    He will soon hear how much I'll be charging before long, I'm sure some client will complain about it!!, What is the suggested rate for doing existing buildings. I'm going to look at an area based system, ie standard fee for the typical 3 bed semi size, increasing for larger houses!!!


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    #27
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭mrgaa1


    Auctioneers can not rate properties on their own books


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    #28
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    Auctioneers can not rate properties on their own books
    DOCARCH wrote: »
    I've heard this too. I've heard that most of the big auctioneers have their in in house guys trained up to carry out carry out assessments on a 'I'll scratch your back, etc., basis' for each other.

    This came from a guy who had set himself up in Dublin and approached most of the auctioneers and they all said no thanks, we're sorted!

    He has since given up and sent back his registration papers to SEI in protest!

    The whole thing is a shambles!
    We know. ;)


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    #29
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    Auctioneers can not rate properties on their own books

    So instead they are going to take a cut from us!!!:mad:, I suppose I should feel sorry for them it might be the only money they get next year!! :D


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    #30
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    ardara1 wrote: »
    Trying to push this again folks - why are the DEAP/BER issues buried in RENEWABLE ENERGIES - does it not deserve its own spot under construction?
    Mods - are you listening? Would bribery help? :rolleyes:
    Right. We discussed this and it was unanimously agreed that such a sub forum would not be sustainable.

    Like every other request along these lines we will of course revisit the matter in a few months again.


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    #31
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Is that the sub forum or just the entire BER system thats unsustainable!!!:D


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