[mendusa]

Im currently in the bank of ireland everygreen fund which i pay 500 a month into it to my horror when i rang them last week i have 14,500 euro in it as opposed to the 21,000 when i applied for it the guy said it would have little or no risk and i should make 10% on my savings at the end of ii was just wondering what to do i heard on the radio today that the boi shares are at its lowest ever should i bail before i lose it all thanks in advance for ya advice

[tytlak]

Evergreen fund is a unit linked fund where your capital is not guaranteed. BofI adviser should not have said that it had no risk. It is a balanced managed fund but the risk is still there in spite of diversification of its assess (blue chips, property, cash, bonds). It was regarded as pretty reliable fund in the normal times and safer to purely equity/property funds. However today's situation is one in the century.

To be honest with you probably even experts dont know and dont understand the situation. 85 cents for BofI shares looks like a sheer madness. There must be things going on that we know nothing about. From 18 euro in Feb last year to 85 cents now. I dont buy that it is only beacuse of recession and construction slowdown.

PS Evergreen dint lose that much at the end. Equity funds are down more than 50%, not to mention geared ones.Imagine someone bought BofI shares last year for 15 euro a share, now they are 15 times less!! Evergeen fund although down still not that bad in this comparison. It is because it was diversified and in normal times it should bring the return above inflation rate. If you have a smartchoice with BofI Life, take into account the charge of 5% on each regular premium and 1.5% annual fund management fee.

[Richie6904]

also do remember that these are long term investments not something you just throw money in and take out when ever you like, their minimum term for any kind of return should be like 5 years.
If you dont really need the money leave it in there and in a few years time if/when things improve take a look at it then and see how its going.

On a side note isnt the evergreen guaranteed fund not sure about this.

[stepbar]

Originally Posted by tytlak

Evergreen fund is a unit linked fund where your capital is not guaranteed. BofI adviser should not have said that it had no risk. It is a balanced managed fund but the risk is still there in spite of diversification of its assess (blue chips, property, cash, bonds). It was regarded as pretty reliable fund in the normal times and safer to purely equity/property funds. However today's situation is one in the century.

To be honest with you probably even experts dont know and dont understand the situation. 85 cents for BofI shares looks like a sheer madness. There must be things going on that we know nothing about. From 18 euro in Feb last year to 85 cents now. I dont buy that it is only beacuse of recession and construction slowdown.

PS Evergreen dint lose that much at the end. Equity funds are down more than 50%, not to mention geared ones.Imagine someone bought BofI shares last year for 15 euro a share, now they are 15 times less!! Evergeen fund although down still not that bad in this comparison. It is because it was diversified and in normal times it should bring the return above inflation rate. If you have a smartchoice with BofI Life, take into account the charge of 5% on each regular premium and 1.5% annual fund management fee.

Your right, the evergreen fund is not guarenteed. However, there's a guarenteed version of which the initial capital is only guarenteed after 6 years!

As for the BOI share price, the final nail in the cross was the announcement that the dividend was suspended until further notice. When you hear people on Grafton St talking about the Bank of Ireland share price you know things aren't just right. It's madness.

[M.A.K]

Hi! I have just read your post and was wondering did you get the situation sorted? I just went to my bank today and found out I am in the very same situation. When I first went to the financial advisor I was not made aware that this was not guaranteed and was under the impression my money was secure. Is there anyone else out there that this has happened to?

[sofireland]

Originally Posted by Richie6904

also do remember that these are long term investments not something you just throw money in and take out when ever you like, their minimum term for any kind of return should be like 5 years.
If you dont really need the money leave it in there and in a few years time if/when things improve take a look at it then and see how its going.

I'd reiterate what Richie says. The Evergreen regular savings is a long term savings plan with a 5-7 recommended time frame.
Yes thinks have declined but you're buying units now at much lower prices.

And without sounding too flippant did you read the fine print of your documents when you received them, as it would have stated on a number of occassions your capital is not guaranteed.

[Toots*]

At the risk of repeating what the others have said, the Evergreen fund is not capital guaranteed, however it is considered a lower risk product than say some of the 'Geared' funds. If you don't need the money urgently, leave it where it is. These funds are designed for long term investments (5-7 years) and the theory is that even if there is an economic downturn, the longer term will give time for the plan to recover. How long ago did you take out the policy?

[johndaman66]

Originally Posted by sofireland

And without sounding too flippant did you read the fine print of your documents when you received them, as it would have stated on a number of occassions your capital is not guaranteed.

I think though in all fairness that for the most part these Funds were sold as very safe investments with little risk attached. It was in my case and I too was duped into buying into the Fund by a BOI Financial Adviser. I deposited approximately 21k euro in October 2006 as a lump sum and my total contributions to date including afore mentioned sum is a few hundred shy of 30k euro. Yet it is now only worth approx 19.4k euro. Without having a complete breakdown it would appear that the Fund is quite heavily invested in Bank shares. When I called in for a meeting with the BOI Financial Adviser (a different one from the man who sold me the poilcy) a few weeks back he re-itirated that it was a relatively safe investment. When I questioned how his he could possibly qualify said statement he suggested that over time such bank shares are relatively stable. From my point of view and without knowing a terrible lot about Financial markets Bank shares just cannot be described as stable. Take BOI shares for example, down from 15 euro per share a year ago to less than 1 euro per share today. I may be totally missing the point or I may be overlooking something but if that is stable what would constitute unstable?

Unlike a previous poster I am fortunate enough in that at the moment I can leave the money sit where it is presently. However, if house prices continue to fall next year (as is being suggested) I would have a view to getting on the property ladder for which this money ar at least part of it together with other savings may be needed as a deposit. Does anybody in the know have any insight into when this Fund may be expected to pick up again/ will it pick up again in the 5 to 7 year time frame (the time frame which has previously being suggested as the number of years an investor should look at to make a return)? It wasn't as if I was getting any straight answers for the BOI Financial Adviser.

Any advice/ insight welcomed and appreciated.

[pocketdooz]

.

[pocketdooz]

Originally Posted by johndaman66

I think though in all fairness that for the most part these Funds were sold as very safe investments with little risk attached. It was in my case and I too was duped into buying into the Fund by a BOI Financial Adviser. I deposited approximately 21k euro in October 2006 as a lump sum and my total contributions to date including afore mentioned sum is a few hundred shy of 30k euro. Yet it is now only worth approx 19.4k euro. Without having a complete breakdown it would appear that the Fund is quite heavily invested in Bank shares. When I called in for a meeting with the BOI Financial Adviser (a different one from the man who sold me the poilcy) a few weeks back he re-itirated that it was a relatively safe investment. When I questioned how his he could possibly qualify said statement he suggested that over time such bank shares are relatively stable. From my point of view and without knowing a terrible lot about Financial markets Bank shares just cannot be described as stable. Take BOI shares for example, down from 15 euro per share a year ago to less than 1 euro per share today. I may be totally missing the point or I may be overlooking something but if that is stable what would constitute unstable?

Unlike a previous poster I am fortunate enough in that at the moment I can leave the money sit where it is presently. However, if house prices continue to fall next year (as is being suggested) I would have a view to getting on the property ladder for which this money ar at least part of it together with other savings may be needed as a deposit. Does anybody in the know have any insight into when this Fund may be expected to pick up again/ will it pick up again in the 5 to 7 year time frame (the time frame which has previously being suggested as the number of years an investor should look at to make a return)? It wasn't as if I was getting any straight answers for the BOI Financial Adviser.

Any advice/ insight welcomed and appreciated.

Finance 101 - Equity lies below all other sources of finance in the capital structure. You should have educated yourself about this simple fact before committing €21,000+

You say you were "duped" into buying this product - I doubt it. I assume you signed something and I further assume that you didn't read it fully. So then, who is to blame ? The advisor . . . or you ? I would say you.

It is your responsibility to take care of your own money. Handing over €21,000 - €30,000 without fully understanding the product and knowing the potential downside is (in my opinion) about as bad as it gets when it come to financial investment.

When you buy shares you . . . are . . . buying . . . risk. Simple. If you didn't want risk you should have stuck with cash or fixed income products. To turn around after it didn't work out and blame your advisor is just childish imo.

I am sick of hearing people blame everyone else (the Govt, the banks, short-sellers, the Americans, Anglo, Bertie, the Developers etc.etc.etc) for where we are when it is our own fault as a people collectively. Hopefully this downturn will stand to educate us with regard to our own finances and stop us from trusting the monkeys that work in BIAM, Davys, Merrion etc from 'minding' our money for us. Trust me, I know a ton of these people and the majority of them are donkeys who know little more than the man on the street and just blindly follow systems already in place.

If you bought a house and lost money on it, it's your fault - your decision, your investment, your money - your fault. The same is true for anyone who bought equities and has lost money. Take repsonsibility for your own actions and get out of the culture of blame that is building up around us. We all gleefully hung on the coat-tails of FF, the developers and the banks when things were good and now when things turn sour we want to point the finger and blame them even though it was our own greed, short-sightedness and largesse that got us to where we are today.



PS - I do not work for BIAM, am not a financial advisor and do not have any personal reason to stick up for BOi advisors but I am just sick of this culture of blame I see surrounding me recently




.

[PeakOutput]

i have heard that of the banks in ireland at the moment bank of ireland is the least likely to go under completely and the most likely to recover almost completely when this all evens itself out and it will even itself out eventually, it just could be a year or two down the road

i would of said that aib were the least likely to go down but was presented with a very convincing argument as to why boi is the most safe right now. if i had the money id be buying up boi shares to be honest

also if i was handing over so much money id be going threw the fine print with a comb and more than likely getting a few other independant eyes to do the same

[johndaman66]

Originally Posted by PeakOutput

i have heard that of the banks in ireland at the moment bank of ireland is the least likely to go under completely and the most likely to recover almost completely when this all evens itself out and it will even itself out eventually, it just could be a year or two down the road

i would of said that aib were the least likely to go down but was presented with a very convincing argument as to why boi is the most safe right now. if i had the money id be buying up boi shares to be honest

also if i was handing over so much money id be going threw the fine print with a comb and more than likely getting a few other independant eyes to do the same

Dunno PeakOutput... Not saying this advice is incorrect but with all due respect a lot of people have lost a hell of a lot of money due to idle speculation. No doubt a lot of people that could afford to take the hit but definately many who cant really either. Probably should not have invested myself but while I am by no means minted I am in a situation where I will not immediately need the money so am in a position to ride out the storm so as to speak and hope for the best. Without doubt I knew there was risk attached but I don't think many even in the know would have predicted a market meltdown of the magnitude that has unfolded in recent months. When I was in with the BOI Financial adviser, which was a few days after the BOI share price hit a low of 83c he told me a friend of his had bought a lot of shares at 7 euro a piece on the basis that the share price couldn't really go any lower. Surley hes not too happy a bunny now about that.

Does your souce have any sound basis for making such a prediction? Does he know something the public at large are unaware off? I know I wont be exposing myself to any further volatility in bank shares based on speculation. Even a few weeks back a large number of people were recommending investing in Anglo shares. Wouldn't have being too wise I think as their current share price (something like 23c a piece at last close of the markets I believe) makes them look very expensive at circa 1 euro a share.

[2x4]

I too am nursing similar percentage losses on a larger sum invested in UK Select Commercial Fund with First Active. I have switched to a low risk fund and hope to stem the losses. One thing that is becoming clear is that the economy is in an unprecedented situation which may last some considerable time. Therefore any opinons or advice regarding investments are no longer valid in this new situation.

[johndaman66]

For those interested I requested and received a statement in the last few days indicating the movement in relation to holdings and asset splits over the last 15 months in this Fund. It notes that and quoting the statement

"The fund is no longer heavily involved in direct Bank Equity. The property content remains reasonably constant at 26%. The reason the Commercial/Retail Property element has not been reduced is purely because we have no intention of currently selling any of these properties in the present market situation combined with the recent devaluation of the UK based properties due to Sterlings current exchange level. As this policy is a regular premium policy you have being purchasing units at far lower values than they had previously been on offer for. We believe the equities that we now hold in the fund will recover over the next three year period if there are no further negative occurences within the stock market over this period".

Now I won't comment on the changes made to the investment strategies as per above because I'm not in a position to. One of the things I would be unsure of and without knowing when the Fund closed out of the various holdings but would a huge loss have being realized in the AIB and Bank of Ireland shares. Would it have being more appropriate to hang onto these in anticipation of an upswing in the markets. Anybody have any comments on this?

To give a breakdown of the asset split as and of the most recent date as per the statement, being 31st of December 2008: -

Asset Split as at the 31st of December, 2008:-
Equities 44%
Property 24%
Fixed Interest 23%
Cash 9%

Equity split as at the 31st of December, 2008:-
North American Equities 26%
Euroland Equities 22%
Non-Euro Equities 12%
UK Equities 12%
Pacific Basin Equities 12%
Irish Equities 10%
Japanese Equities 6%

Top 10 Equities (in alphabetical order)
CRH
HSBC
Nestle
Nokia
Novartis
Roche
Ryanair
Telefonica
Total
Vodafone

[John Mason]

Dont mention that evergreen fund to me.

i took out the policy 4.5 years ago with a lump sum of €7,000.00.

i made it very clear to the finance advisor guy that i didnt not want a situation where i could lose anything from the principal, he told me it was a low risk investment and that i wouldnt lose anything from the balance.

then i get a statement saying my policy was worth €4,000.00. i nearly died, this was my new roof fund. anyway, i phoned up to see if this was a mistake and that i had clearly stated that i didnt want to be in a situation where i could lose any of my principal. the girl on the phone laughed and said "you cant prove what was said in a meeting 4 years ago"



i was nearly sick on the phone and just demanded my money back now

BOI are absolutely the worse bank i have ever dealt with

i know you are going to say, its my fault for not reading the small print. I dont know anything about financial stuff, so i thought i would be safe going to an advisor, i told him everything i wanted for my very small investment and i thought, i had no reason to believe he would lie to me