IWF hand

[Requiem4adream]

Exact details sketchy was tired but roughly:

I've 18k, 150/300 ante 25, raise UTG to 900 w/ AKo folded to button (nicky power, 13k) who calls. Been at the table about an hour havent really played a hand, although spent about 15 mins of that hour in the toilet after a chicken curry Havent seen nicky do anything out of line.

(2k~) A 9 9 rainbow

I lead 1k~, called.

(4k~) Turn 8h

I check/call bet of 1800 ish

(7.5k~) River 7c

I check, he bets 2.5k~. Call/fold/Raise?

[tipp86]

I think by checking the turn here you are trying to keep the pot under control to call on the river.

I think i lead out the turn here for about the same as he bet.

As played im calling the river rather hesitantly.The bet is to small to fold with the hand you have. Im really having trouble putting a hand on him that we beat ! AQ AJ A10?? The way you played the hand makes it look weaker than it is so another reason for making the call.


Why not lead out the turn?

[Requiem4adream]

Originally Posted by tipp86

I think by checking the turn here you are trying to keep the pot under control to call on the river.

I think i lead out the turn here for about the same as he bet.

As played im calling the river rather hesitantly.The bet is to small to fold with the hand you have. Im really having trouble putting a hand on him that we beat ! AQ AJ A10?? The way you played the hand makes it look weaker than it is so another reason for making the call.


Why not lead out the turn?

Yeah i guess i tried to control the pot a little because i was unsure where i was in the hand.

On the turn, once i check it looks like i'm slowing down and i should be able to get value from most Ax hands/bluffs that i beat (although i cant think of many he would flat the button with), equally all hands i'm losing to (bet) of course although i cant think of many of those either. If i bet and he calls/shoves then i'm left with a tricky situation because i cant see anything i beat despite the dry nature of the board.

I think a bigger problem is the river - if he bet bigger i'd have had less of a decision but i felt like i was being valuetowned. But if i can call then surely i should be raising?

[tipp86]

Originally Posted by Requiem4adream

But if i can call then surely i should be raising?

Theres only Ax and a bluff ( which i think we can rule out )that you beat. So by raising the river you will only be called by a better hand?

How would you have played AQ AJ A10 from the button ?

Maybe you can explain why you think if you can call that you can raise?

[TommyGunne]

I like the turn check tbh. Your not getting value from much worse given your image. As played I call and expect to see worse aces enough.

[FeetMagic]

I would be surprised if he showed up with a 9 here. 89s or 910s generally arent hands for calling an UTG raise with. I think his range is almost certainly made up of worse aces and he genuinely thinks hes ahead on the river, most likely AJ and AQ. Your hand is slightly under-repped so if I was in villains shoes with AQ/AJ Id probably play it like this and more than likely value bet the river.
I like your suggestion of raising the river but its risky because any raise you make has you pot committed and you have to be fairly sure he has a worse ace and will pay you off for this to be profitable.

[jbravado]

Originally Posted by tipp86

Maybe you can explain why you think if you can call that you can raise?

I dont understand this either.

I think betting the turn can lead us folding the best hand too much if raised and generally makes the hand harder to play. We have to call on the end.

[FeetMagic]

Originally Posted by jbravado

I dont understand this either.

I think betting the turn can lead us folding the best hand too much if raised and generally makes the hand harder to play. We have to call on the end.

If hes calling because he thinks hes ahead is it profitable to raise knowing villain may call with a worse ace.

[Requiem4adream]

Basically by the river if i'm calling it should be because i think i'm ahead and that he's valuebetting AQ/AJ or AK at a stretch (i'd find it hard to think he played AK like this). If i think i'm behind i should be folding. With the stack sizes as they are, if i believe i'm good by the river i'm not sure he can fold AK/AQ/AJ given my line.

Tipp what makes call > raise on the river?

[FeetMagic]

Originally Posted by Requiem4adream

Tipp what makes call > raise on the river?

It depends how heavily you weight his range to a weaker ace. Do you think this villain ever shows up with a 9? I agree though villain would find it difficult to fold AQ or AJ here given your line. Its a marginal decision. I think if you put villain mainly on AQ/AJ (most likely from his play) you have to raise river.

[Requiem4adream]

Originally Posted by FeetMagic

It depends how heavily you weight his range to a weaker ace. Do you think this villain ever shows up with a 9? I agree though villain would find it difficult to fold AQ or AJ here given your line. Its a marginal decision. I think if you put villain mainly on AQ/AJ (most likely from his play) you have to raise river.

I couldnt see any hands he could have containing a 9 other than 99. Tbh i was happy ish with my line pre, flop and turn but the river really threw me a bit. Conceivably on the turn he can put me on KK/QQ, because i raised pre, c-bet Ace flop, checked the turn, so i'm happy that his turn bet can be anything really; on that basis given my line he probably would thinly valuebet AQ/AJ on the river.

[5starpool]

No point at all raising the river. He will almost never call with AQ/AJ, never with a PP or air, and will only call with a hand that beats you. I call the river as he could well just be trying to take you off it with feck all or a pair, or have a worse Ax that he can't call a reraise with but thinks he may be good with and value betting to an extent. If he has a hand that beats you you lose the minimum while still playing correctly imo, and if he has a hand you beat you are never getting more anyhow. It is a pretty small river bet though, but it may just be disguised to look like a value bet.

I play the hand the same except I call the river.

[FeetMagic]

Originally Posted by Requiem4adream

I couldnt see any hands he could have containing a 9 other than 99. Tbh i was happy ish with my line pre, flop and turn but the river really threw me a bit. Conceivably on the turn he can put me on KK/QQ, because i raised pre, c-bet Ace flop, checked the turn, so i'm happy that his turn bet can be anything really; on that basis given my line he probably would thinly valuebet AQ/AJ on the river.

I would have played the hand the exact same way as you but only I would have bet the river to get value from AQ/AJ and then more than likely fold to a raise and give villain respect for a 9.
As you say your turn check can look live a weaker pair but villain is only calling flop with a 9 or a weaker ace so I think you have to bet the river. River CR IMO is very good poker if villain would call with AQ/AJ.

[jbravado]

Originally Posted by FeetMagic

If hes calling because he thinks hes ahead is it profitable to raise knowing villain may call with a worse ace.

Ah ok-I cant see how villian will call with a worse ace no matter how funky Rqs line will appear.

[Requiem4adream]

Originally Posted by 5starpool

No point at all raising the river. He will almost never call with AQ/AJ, never with a PP or air, and will only call with a hand that beats you. I call the river as he could well just be trying to take you off it with feck all or a pair, or have a worse Ax that he can't call a reraise with but thinks he may be good with and value betting to an extent. If he has a hand that beats you you lose the minimum while still playing correctly imo, and if he has a hand you beat you are never getting more anyhow. It is a pretty small river bet though, but it may just be disguised to look like a value bet.

I play the hand the same except I call the river.

At the time this was my precise thinking and i just called. Probably too quickly. Just looking back, the type of hands i felt he could have were AQ/AJ and that given stack sizes and my line he might have to call with those type of hands if i shoved the river.

He had 910ss. Is it reasonable to discount the 9 from my thinking during the hand?