[Liam Byrne]

Originally Posted by Mirror

Visual appeal != design, and is therefore arguably subjective.

I fail to see how I'm being silly though. I think arguing the absolute bargain that site is, despite it's shortcomings, is silly. Double the money. Or triple it. Pay $400 - $500 dollars and what can you get? A lot more than you would get for the same in euro.

Depends on what you view as its "shortcomings".

I did a quick search for "dublin djs" and there was no sign of that site; so is it still worth paying for/having ?

Personally, I don't like the colours/layout, but then I occasionally don't like the choices made by some of our clients, so that is, indeed, subjective.

But you do need some chance of being found in order to make a website worthwhile.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Liam Byrne

Depends on what you view as its "shortcomings".

I did a quick search for "dublin djs" and there was no sign of that site; so is it still worth paying for/having ?

Personally, I don't like the colours/layout, but then I occasionally don't like the choices made by some of our clients, so that is, indeed, subjective.

But you do need some chance of being found in order to make a website worthwhile.

Agreed, and that was my primary thought when I mentioned shortcomings. There is absolutely no SEO gone in to that site. It's also up no more that two weeks. But if you had seen the abomination that had been there before it, it was the kind of site that would actually drive you away. I'm talking the old school center aligned text down the middle of the page, blue/purple text on black background, haphazard bad quality images, truly awful! And it wasn't optimized at all, that's for sure.

So for $70, at least now there is a site that, while it's design may not be too appealing, actually looks relatively professional, and doesn't give off the impression that the service is just a bunch of yahoo's on dodgy desks. You know? That, to me, is well worth the price.

[nikimere]

This argument is stupid.
Great you can get a template for $50 or less.

If i were starting a business i would not skimp on image. Just like i wouldn't skimp on a good accountant.
Buying a template means having to customise it yourself, some people cant and just shouldn't (because of lack of required skills) do that.
If you outsource development more than likely your going to have trouble getting support, you have to deal with time differences and you also run the risk of being done-over with no door to knock on. At the end of the day, as a consumer i would prefere to deal face to face than with someone on the other side of the world, especially when it is for something that is as important as my business.

Paying a local web dev company to design & develop a website is a worth while investment, so long as you shop around. You have to pay people for their time and time in Ireland isn't cheap, unfortunately.

Saying that the whole industry is coming to an end because you can out-source at a cheaper rate is a stupid comment, and it just wont happen.

If you dont mind your site looking like a few hundred (sometimes thousands) others then work away with a template. I personally wouldn't be into that.

[stooge]

@Liam Byrne -

If you search for 'dublin disco' it is the 4th link
If you search for 'dublin karaoke' it is the 5th link

Good looking site, and excellent value for money. Right down the OP's street I'd imagine.

[niceirishfella]

Originally Posted by stooge

@Liam Byrne -

If you search for 'dublin disco' it is the 4th link
If you search for 'dublin karaoke' it is the 5th link

Good looking site, and excellent value for money. Right down the OP's street I'd imagine.

+1 - i agree.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stooge

@Liam Byrne -

If you search for 'dublin disco' it is the 4th link
If you search for 'dublin karaoke' it is the 5th link

Good looking site, and excellent value for money. Right down the OP's street I'd imagine.

Well look at that!

The benefits of decent markup, eh?

Originally Posted by nikimere

This argument is stupid.
Great you can get a template for $50 or less.

If i were starting a business i would not skimp on image. Just like i wouldn't skimp on a good accountant.
Buying a template means having to customise it yourself, some people cant and just shouldn't (because of lack of required skills) do that.
If you outsource development more than likely your going to have trouble getting support, you have to deal with time differences and you also run the risk of being done-over with no door to knock on. At the end of the day, as a consumer i would prefere to deal face to face than with someone on the other side of the world, especially when it is for something that is as important as my business.

Paying a local web dev company to design & develop a website is a worth while investment, so long as you shop around. You have to pay people for their time and time in Ireland isn't cheap, unfortunately.

Saying that the whole industry is coming to an end because you can out-source at a cheaper rate is a stupid comment, and it just wont happen.

If you dont mind your site looking like a few hundred (sometimes thousands) others then work away with a template. I personally wouldn't be into that.

Nobody said that, I am all for keeping work in Ireland, I do the job myself, though as a spare time thing. And I don't believe it is/will die in this country, I just take issue with heggies very first response to the OP, "you can't". This is absolutely false, and unfair to the OP when he's just looking for some sound advice.

You're dead right, there are chances to be taken when outsourcing, but if you ask for advice, it is an option, and can be a complete success, or an absolute failure, but to be honest, the failure comes in to play when the client just doesn't know what they want a lot of the time, and anyone can make a mess of it then, and the client is to blame. If you're clear and concise with what you want, the whole process will probably go very smoothly.

[nikimere]

Originally Posted by niceirishfella

your livliehood is at stake here cos people are copping on.........the game is up...........

Originally Posted by nikimere

...Saying that the whole industry is coming to an end because you can out-source at a cheaper rate is a stupid comment, and it just wont happen.

Originally Posted by Mirror

Nobody said that...

No in those exact words, but that's what he meant.

Obviously i am against everything a template stands for because i am a designer/developer. If you want to do it on the cheap it is the best way to go. You'll get a reasonably professional looking site.
I would suggest shop around Irish Web Development companies, not all are into the overpricing game. You will get a better end-product (99.99% of the time) if you can site down with your web dev company and discuss the project properly, see it evolve and guide them along the process to a finished product you can be proud of.

[stooge]

Originally Posted by Mirror

Nobody said that, I am all for keeping work in Ireland, I do the job myself, though as a spare time thing. And I don't believe it is/will die in this country, I just take issue with heggies very first response to the OP, "you can't". This is absolutely false, and unfair to the OP when he's just looking for some sound advice.

You really can't argue with this paragragh.

Saying 'you can't get a decent website for less than 500E' is just not true. There are decent people and decent companies doing exactly that. Why spend 1000+ on a website that may get exactly the same exposure as one that can be done for 500-?

If the OP wants value for money then that value may lie outside ireland. Thats a fact heggie and others will have to accept. Just because someone charges more doesnt mean they'll do a better job.

It's an interesting time in the irish economy atm and I am definitely one for keeping the money here rather than elsewhere but it boils down to being realistic about price and competitive. It you cant compete then 'get out of the kitchen'.

[smemon]

I've no doubt if you go with an Irish company you'll get a professional product & service - no doubt.

However most people living in the real world simply cannot afford to pay the prices. Why would we, when we can get the same job done elsewhere for half the cost or less?

It's like flying with aerlingus paying €200 to go to london when you can get there for €80 with ryanair. Why do it unless you can afford to?

Ok, false ecomony can come in to play, but not if you've done your homework which is what the OP is doing by posting here in fairness.

[heggie]

right, a few people are quoting me out of context. the OP looked for a QUALITY, that's a QUALITY website for 500, and I said you can't, I stand by that and have yet to be proven wrong. This threadis a farce anyhow, last thing I'll add is that I don't think Irish web designers are any more expensive than any other countries, not sure where that perception is coming from?

[aidan_walsh]

Quality is hugely subjective and is not something that can be quantified with a hyperlink alone.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by heggie

right, a few people are quoting me out of context. the OP looked for a QUALITY, that's a QUALITY website for 500, and I said you can't, I stand by that and have yet to be proven wrong. This threadis a farce anyhow, last thing I'll add is that I don't think Irish web designers are any more expensive than any other countries, not sure where that perception is coming from?

That's just plain ignorance.

It is a well known and widely accepted fact that web designers outside this country can be cheaper. They live in a different country, with a less inflated economy, have a lower cost of living, and a lower average rate of pay. Ergo, they charge less.

[heggie]

stop nitpicking, take the EU for example you know the point I was trying to make.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by heggie

stop nitpicking, take the EU for example you know the point I was trying to make.

Wrong again: http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

You can't be so out of touch as to think that the entirity of the EU is going be be on even par?

On top of which, how the hell is that nitpicking, we didn't say outsource to somewhere not in the EU. Outsourcing means out of Ireland. Honestly...

[heggie]

this has turned into a farce, to point in continuing conversation