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29-02-2008, 13:45   #1
foggy_lad
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0818 numbers

these numbers are called "national rate" numbers so i have a question, should a phone company be charging international rates(uk rate) for calling an 0818 number(sky ireland)?

the phone company claims they do not recognize these "eircom" numbers so the call is charged at the applicable rate for where the call terminates in this case the UK.

does anyone know if this sounds right?
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29-02-2008, 13:48   #2
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What phone company are you talking about here? They should be charged at whatever rate Comreg set for them. Anything more and you're being robbed by "phone company".
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29-02-2008, 14:05   #3
Sam Vimes
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what were you charged?

these are the charges for 0818 numbers:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0818.jpg (40.4 KB, 12274 views)
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29-02-2008, 14:13   #4
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it was perlico and was ringing sky. the 0818 number showed on the bill as a uk number and cost approx 30cent/min. they tried to claim that they didn't recognise these as natinal rate because they were only eircom numbers? like only eircom had to charge the national rate?
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29-02-2008, 15:30   #5
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Short version: Stand your ground you have done nothing wrong and Perlico want to take the easy route out.

Long version:
This could get a bit technical but lets start with some background. 08xx numbers are virtual numbers, that is they don't have a area code or similar that they are originating from. Hence once you dial one of these numbers the phone switch has to go check where it is suppose to route the call as there is no direct geographical area to send you to.

The set up of the 08xx numbers will allow the buyer to choose what type of charges there are to be connected with it. That is the full cost of the call would still be charged and it is a question how much would the person calling and the buyer pay of the total cost of the call. Hence a national rate call would be charged at say 10p a minute but due to routing to UK it costs 30p and the buyer gets to pick the tab for this. Due to this you will often find that these numbers have limitations (i.e. no mobile phones, connect call etc. allowed) to reduce the cost for the buyer and keep it with in a reasonble level. There is also possability (depending on company) to add other services such as load balancing, call overflow (if no pick up in 3 signals route to here etc.), white lists/black lists for origin/country/type, route based on time etc.

Now in case of Perlico you would be dialling from a fixed line and most of these requirements would not be kicking in. What Perlico now is trying to do is trying to get you to pay for the full cost of the call. The most likely reason is as the correct way would be for them to charge you national rate (as the prefix states) and then go to Eircom to get back the difference of what they where charged once they connected you to the UK as this is where the number pointed to. How ever for them to even know where to connect you Perlico would have to go to Eircom and ask them where to connect you. Hence Perlico would also know that this was a Virtual number and different charges would apply compared to a normal call directly connected to UK. Having said that getting cash out of Eircom is probably a royal pain in the behind and hence they go for the easy route to cover their costs.
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03-03-2008, 01:37   #6
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Fair amount of mis-information here!

0818 are Universal Access numbers, and eircom terminate them at a charge close to the national STD call rate. However, any other company can charge as they see fit, and are under no obligation to charge national rate, etc.

0818 numbers are non-geographical numbers, and are routed to some provider in Ireland (who then forward to a regular geographic number, forward to an ineternational number, etc.), so Perlico shouldn't be treating it as a UK call (as the routing as far as they're concerned is to Ireland not UK). In this case, Sky would pay some Irish telco for the 0818 number, and would strike some sort of deal with them for the cost of forwarding to the UK. It's Sky that pay the Ireland>UK portion of the call, not the caller.

Which provider Sky use can be checked on ComReg's website.

The idea behind 0818 was a handy national-rate non-geographical number. The implementation was a handy earner for most non-eircom call providers, and it's rarely included in bundled minutes, etc.
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04-03-2008, 13:00   #7
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LOB to be honest mate.

Perlico wouldnt know where the number was terminating ultimately so they can only charge you for the local element of the call and considering they are interconnected to Vodafone now you can assume that this wont be much. Stick with it and let us know how you go
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04-03-2008, 13:18   #8
foggy_lad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzler View Post
LOB to be honest mate.

Perlico wouldnt know where the number was terminating ultimately so they can only charge you for the local element of the call and considering they are interconnected to Vodafone now you can assume that this wont be much. Stick with it and let us know how you go
they knew and also instead of the 0818 number appearing in the itemised bill it showed the uk number for sky which is possibly why they charged the uk rate for the call!
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04-03-2008, 13:25   #9
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Originally Posted by foggy_lad View Post
they knew and also instead of the 0818 number appearing in the itemised bill it showed the uk number for sky which is possibly why they charged the uk rate for the call!
Even worse again, thats not the number you dialled!
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04-03-2008, 16:24   #10
cgarvey
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Originally Posted by foggy_lad View Post
they knew and also instead of the 0818 number appearing in the itemised bill it showed the uk number for sky which is possibly why they charged the uk rate for the call!
Odd, to say the least! They must have some manual routing in place (maybe they don't have a local Irish interconnect at all?) then, because the whole idea of 0818 is to be non-geographic (but terminated locally, so you could, in theory, change the geographic number it's terminated at ever couple of minutes .. routing info that's not going to get pushed to all originators on time). In that case if Sky have their provider change the number their 0818 forwards to, then will Perlico still try to connect you to the UK number rate? Even if Sky changes the 0818 to point to their Dublin office (as an example).

Do all 0818 numbers get charged at UK rates maybe?

Either way, it's definitely against the spirit of 0818 (an Irish prefix), and given that they don't tell you what the cost is (in their PDF call costs download), I'd certainly pursue the matter in writing referencing other Irish carrier prices. Depends on how much free time you have, I guess!

Last edited by cgarvey; 04-03-2008 at 16:29.
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