[Scofflaw]

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

Ah right, I get you. Religion, in this case is about the alleviation of personal responsiblility. I can be annoyed and want you to suffer horribly, for eternity but its not my fault, its gods plan?

Cop out.

Seems to me that the fire and brimstone bit gives christians a way of pouring scorn and wishing terrible things on other people wihtout having to justify it.

I wouldn't say that. If you tell a smoker that by smoking they risk a horrible death by lung cancer, you are not wishing it on them. You may indeed be genuinely concerned, and upset at the idea of the self-inflicted tortures in store for them.

Having said that, there can of course be elements of schadenfreude - thinking to yourself of the punishments in store when the heathens get one up, or are having more fun than you. Still, that is certainly by no means the whole story.

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

Consider that the belief in and support of a religion whose tennents include the slow broiling of heathens is the implication that you yourself believe such things to be right, fair, just and reasonable. If so, are you not complicit in the act itself? Guilty by association?

Separate question, surely?

cordially,
Scofflaw

[Hivemind187]

Originally Posted by Scofflaw

Separate question, surely?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Not when they would imply the same thing But I'll drop this. For now

[kelly1]

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

When a theist is saying "I hope you all burn in hell" it is the worst thing they can wish upon you.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

When they are saying things like "I see no alternative for you other than hell" they are saying that we are going to suffer, while it is well diguised the general sentiment is the same.

As I said it is my belief that to reject God and His mercy results in damnation. But I'm not the judge.

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

You will suffer and I will not because my god will punish you.

I never said I wouldn't suffer. I believe in Purgatory.

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

Its rare that a theist actually says "I want to save you from hell" - more often than not because they are to busy condemning us to it.

I haven't condemned anyone. I'm telling you what I believe. Why do you think I've been urging people to turn to God and urging repentance? And don't take this as condemnation from my high horse. I'm a sinner too.

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

the semantic argument is there depending on whether their is genuine malice and anger in the post.

I assure you there is no malice in my post. I only want to spread the good news of the Gospel.

[kelly1]

Originally Posted by Scofflaw

I wouldn't say that. If you tell a smoker that by smoking they risk a horrible death by lung cancer, you are not wishing it on them. You may indeed be genuinely concerned, and upset at the idea of the self-inflicted tortures in store for them.

Good analogy. Thanks.

[bogwalrus]

Originally Posted by kelly1

No, you can't tell the future so you don't know when, how or if God will reach out to you in His mercy. I believe God gives us all a last chance before we die.

can i spin the wheel instead?


Only kiddin=)

You should be laffin at this thread anyway Kelly1. God would probably laff to be honest as it wasn't in anyway started out of spite etc. A few comments were below the belt i must admit but in a forum of atheists who base their theoretical assumptions on scientific fact it is not too shocking to have someone mention christians as being mentally ill? You could easily say that about atheists but i dont think you think like atheists do.

[kelly1]

Originally Posted by OK-Cancel-Apply

The Bible is quite easily rubbished as nonsense. There comes a point when you can't argue any more with somebody as it becomes clear that they just won't give up on their imaginary friend. If you have a lot emotionally invested in a concept, then you'll start lying to yourself and making excuses when evidence reveals it to be untrue. I think this is especially so when the idea has been instilled since early childhood. The result is that as an adult, one experiences fear and guilt when even questioning the truth of the Bible or the God idea. I certainly remember religion class - a place where questions where very much frowned upon. Not really a 'learning' environment, eh? More a case of 'X is true, and if you question it, you are a sinner, and there's a special place for sinners!'

We should try to remember that most rational, reasonable, non-emotionally disturbed individuals do not believe in this 2000 year old dogma.

This is so totally twisted, derogatory and arrogant. You're a very poor advert for atheism.

[eoin5]

Originally Posted by Hivemind187

Ah right, I get you. Religion, in this case is about the alleviation of personal responsiblility. I can be annoyed and want you to suffer horribly, for eternity but its not my fault, its gods plan?

Cop out.

Seems to me that the fire and brimstone bit gives christians a way of pouring scorn and wishing terrible things on other people wihtout having to justify it.

Consider that the belief in and support of a religion whose tennents include the slow broiling of heathens is the implication that you yourself believe such things to be right, fair, just and reasonable. If so, are you not complicit in the act itself? Guilty by association?

I see youre point but I think youre tarring all christians with the same brush. Believing that someone will go to hell if they dont change and wishing it are not the same thing. If you saw a blind person walking straight towards an oncoming train would you not give some sort of warning?

What I do think is that christians give too much cover to those who would wish the infinite darkness on people, and show too much of a blind eye to the effect their beliefs has on the world. Guilty by association? yes I agree, but in a much different way than you are implying. I dont think most christians are using it as an excuse to damn people to hell like. Theyre more guilty of choosing not to take in the effect their collective beliefs have on the whole.

[kelly1]

Originally Posted by bogwalrus

You should be laffin at this thread anyway Kelly1. God would probably laff to be honest as it wasn't in anyway started out of spite etc. A few comments were below the belt i must admit but in a forum of atheists who base their theoretical assumptions on scientific fact it is not too shocking to have someone mention christians as being mentally ill? You could easily say that about atheists but i dont think you think like atheists do.

I think atheism is a kind of blindness to be honest. Why does science have to be the be-all and end-all? It's so arrogant of a scientist to say that something can't exist just because they have no scientific evidence for it as if they were omniscient. It's pure arrogance. I have very good reasons for believing in God but God only comes to us when we approach him. Atheists refuse to take the first step and I think this stems from pride.

[bogwalrus]

i hold some buddhist philosophical beliefs. i believe in the possibility of a god, a creator. I still feel though the atheist way of thinking is quite accurate.

Can i just ask one question to the atheists on this forum:

How many of you believe that a god/creator could exist?



The answer should answer your question Kelly1.

[bogwalrus]

sorry kelly, i thought you asked a question,doh . the answer should be interesting all the same=)

[bluewolf]

Originally Posted by kelly1

I think atheism is a kind of blindness to be honest. Why does science have to be the be-all and end-all?

Who said it did?

It's so arrogant of a scientist to say that something can't exist just because they have no scientific evidence for it

Good thing they don't then

Atheists refuse to take the first step and I think this stems from pride.

It really doesn't.

[eoin5]

Originally Posted by kelly1

I think atheism is a kind of blindness to be honest. Why does science have to be the be-all and end-all? It's so arrogant of a scientist to say that something can't exist just because they have no scientific evidence for it as if they were omniscient. It's pure arrogance. I have very good reasons for believing in God but God only comes to us when we approach him. Atheists refuse to take the first step and I think this stems from pride.

Pride in what? Its not some arbitary term akin to evil, it applies to something.

[Dades]

Originally Posted by kelly1

Atheists refuse to take the first step and I think this stems from pride.

That is simply not true. You have no idea of the journeys anybody here has taken to arrive at their beliefs. Now you are doing exactly what posters in this thread were doing before you arrived. Speculating as to why people believe something different.

Put simply you cannot understand how somebody can just not believe in god, therefore assume they choose not to, and we heathens cannot understand how someone possibly can. Détente?

[kelly1]

Originally Posted by Dades

You have no idea of the journeys anybody here has taken to arrive at their beliefs. Now you are doing exactly what posters in this thread were doing before you arrived. Speculating as to why people believe something different.

Fair point, I shouldn't generalize.

[artie ziff]

i don't think that rubbishing each others beliefs contributes to anything useful. i'm an atheist but a person expressing disagreement with my point of view doesn't upset me. i've never found it helpful to insult anyone's intelligence either.

as i post this reply, 6 people have voted yes to the original question (which is admittedly open to interpretation due to it's incomprehensible grammer). to those people i would like to point out that einstein went to his grave belleiving that science was the uncovering of clues left to us by god as to the nature of the universe. stephen hawking is also of similar belief. if they are both lacking in intelligence then i for one am way out of my depth in this forum and i'm sorry for wasting your time.

p.s. kelly is a girls name (no offence)