New Gaggia Classic + High Expectation - Skill = Frustration

[Pix.ie (Marcus)]

Hi guys,

I've been hovering around this board and some others in an attempt to learn more about making "good" espresso. (I'm one of those people who sends back espresso in restaurants if its no good, so my expectations and standards are high )

I've recently picked up an Gaggia Classic and Gaggai MM grinder. I've yet to get myself a proper tamper (any ideas where to pick one up in Dublin?).

As a newbie, I'm finding it difficult to understand the "correct" variables at play here.

• Coffee: I buy Palombini beans in 1KG bag from La Corte.
• Grinder: People talk about a good quality grinder... but never talk about what exactly makes a good grinder good and a poor grinder poor. Perhaps my Gaggia MM is ****e... but what makes it ****e?
• Grind: What grind level is right? Fine like dust or slightly coarse? I have found that a grind level of 3 notches from the lowest settings is the minimum to allow the Classic to get the coffee through and that's only if you don't tamp too hard.
• Tamping: Assuming that I will have a good tamper, how much pressure is "correct". It seems that if I apply my full force, the coffee doesn't come through, medium force and it seems okay. But the Gaggia manual says to tamp "gently". I really need to witness the correct pressure!
• Quantity: I have found it is quite difficult to fill with the correct amount of coffee grinds. Too much and and coffee doesn't pour, too little and the puck is wet. In fact the puck is often wet and there doesn't seem to be any consistency...

So my frustration is this: There are a number of variables at play here and trying to find the correct settings etc is proving very difficult.

Can anyone point me to a guide where each of the variables can be tested and perfected in some sort of isolation?

Cheers,
Marcus

[Mr Magnolia]

Originally Posted by iampixie

Hi guys,

I've been hovering around this board and some others in an attempt to learn more about making "good" espresso. (I'm one of those people who sends back espresso in restaurants if its no good, so my expectations and standards are high )

I've recently picked up an Gaggia Classic and Gaggai MM grinder. I've yet to get myself a proper tamper (any ideas where to pick one up in Dublin?).

Brown Thomas have some, slightly over priced imo though. M&D supply them too. My advice would be to buy on-line. I got mine from Happydonkey.co.uk. Check out all the links in the stickies on the main page.

As a newbie, I'm finding it difficult to understand the "correct" variables at play here.

Coffee: I buy Palombini beans in 1KG bag from La Corte.

Never tried them, beans are beans though. You will need to adjust your grinder from time to time. The bean, the roast date, the humidity, the temperature are all factors that affect the bean in the hopper. We'll try and get it close to start with.

Grinder: People talk about a good quality grinder... but never talk about what exactly makes a good grinder good and a poor grinder poor. Perhaps my Gaggia MM is ****e... but what makes it ****e?

I'm not familair with the grinder. searching please wait....

TBH it doesn't appear to be a great grinder. Don't peg it out yet though. A stepless grinder is better for fine adjustment. Your grinder appears to have 9 settings which would be easy for switching between say, a filter grind or an espresso grind. Anyway, onwards, we'll try it out and see what results we get.

Tamping: Assuming that I will have a good tamper, how much pressure is "correct". It seems that if I apply my full force, the coffee doesn't come through, medium force and it seems okay. But the Gaggia manual says to tamp "gently". I really need to witness the correct pressure!

I've re-organized your bullets. It is relatively easy to achieve consistency with a tamp. Opinions vary widely over what force should be used. I use a medium force and try and keep it a constant. My advice would be to decidde on a medium pressure and stick with it through-out the 'set-up' process. When you have everything else fine-tuned you can start varying this and testing results. Rub the beans between your fingers and note the texture, this is how I started anyway, somone may have a better idea?

Grind: What grind level is right? Fine like dust or slightly coarse? I have found that a grind level of 3 notches from the lowest settings is the minimum to allow the Classic to get the coffee through and that's only if you don't tamp too hard.

When I started with my Iberital MC2, I went into a café that I know serves good espresso and asked for a sample of thier grind. It may not be accurrate but it's a start. You could also shell out a 4/5 quid and buy some lavazza if you feel you're waaay off the mark currently. It shouldn't take you too long as you've only 9 settings too choose from.

Quantity: I have found it is quite difficult to fill with the correct amount of coffee grinds. Too much and and coffee doesn't pour, too little and the puck is wet. In fact the puck is often wet and there doesn't seem to be any consistency...

First of all, don't worry about the wet puck. It probably means you're not dosing enough but forget about it for the minute.

You're dose should heap slightly over the basket. Tap the basket on the counter a few times to balance the doses out and then tamp. You should try and pick up that tamper asap. Those plastic efforts are crap, the one that came with the classic (I've the classic myself, as do many of the other contributers here). Try and tamp level and plumb. Your dose should be compressed evenly across the basket, a good tamper will aid this. You'll need a 57mm for the Gaggia Classic.

[rockbeer]

Mr. Magnolia's answers are comprehensive as usual, just one or two thing's I'd add.

- Palombini is great coffee, no worries there, but if you want a really thick crema try something freshly roasted rather than vac-pack. Bewley's in Grafton St. sell fresh-roasted beans, or order online from Ristretto (link in sticky).

- What makes a great grinder is the evenness of the grind. It's not just a matter of how coarse/fine but one of minimizing the variation between the smallest and largest particles. This is a function of the quality of the burr set in the grinder, the precision of their mountings and the degree of adjustability. Your mm isn't great but I believe it can be modded to give a slightly more suitable grind for espresso. Here's one brief guide:
http://coffeetweek.blogspot.com/2007...djustment.html

Google for gaggia mm mod for a whole load more. Obviously this will void your warranty so you might prefer to battle with it as it is or exchange it for something better. I believe there's also a good bit of discussion of this grinder on the alt.coffee newsgroup:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/topics

Disclaimer: ymmv - I'd read up thoroughly on this before being tempted to get the tools out.

- There's no absolute answer to your question about the correct grind level. The one that's right is the one that's right for your particular machine and tamp pressure. It's the one that makes an espresso pour in around 25 seconds. The grind should be very fine, but if too fine it will clog the machine.

- The 'recommended' tamping pressure by the likes of David Schomer is 30 pounds, and the gurus recommend you get the feel of applying this amount of pressure using a bathroom scales. However, getting good espresso -as you've started to discover - is a function of the relationship between the grind and tamp pressure. So like the grind fineness, the 'right' tamp pressure is the one that pours your shot in around 25 seconds at a given grind setting. For this reason, although I used to tamp at 30 lbs, these days I use just the dead weight of a heavy tamper because I can guarantee this is always consistent, leaving me just the grind to worry about. This technique works well with my Wega Mininova, which is very tolerant of variation in grind, and my Rancilio Silvia, but I can't say how well it will work with other machines. However the principle should be applicable on any machine. Basically the absolute tamp pressure is less relevant than making sure it's consistent and appropriate to the grind setting. But you might find the bathroom scales useful just to get an idea of how tamping at various pressures feels, which should in turn help you understand what you're trying to achieve. Oh, and don't delay, buy a decent tamper before you go too much further or you'll just end up frustrated.

- As Mr Magnolia says, the coffee should be just level with the top of the basket before you tamp. I fill my basket slightly proud then sweep across the top with my forefinger to level the grounds right to the edges of the basket - add a bit more coffee if necessary to bring it up to the top. Then tamp and away you go.

Finally, as all the answer you'll get here will demonstrate, good espresso is as much art as science. But at least you know what you're aiming for. Keep going for that and you will get there.

hth, good luck, if you've any more questions then just ask.

[Pix.ie (Marcus)]

Many many thanks for both your comments. I shall go out and buy a tamper before experimenting any further. I'll also get out the bathroom scales and give that a shot (excuse the pun )!

Perhaps I'll have some more questions after the next batch of experiments. For now i'll just have to put up with mediocrity.

Marcus

[GRINDER*MAN]

Hi All, this is my first post - have been impressed with the wealth of useful knowledge here. I've had a gaggia classic (with opv mod - cheers guys!) and mdf grinder for about a year now with mixed results. Recently I've been using hasbean premium espresso beans but not getting great shots. I've always gone for the full 30 pound tamp, but just this evening I tried a slightly finer grind and less tamp, and I got a great shot (on 2nd attempt!). So thanks for the tip rockbeer!

On the mod front - over the course of the year I changed the gaggia wand for a silvia one, and made the mdf stepless, and last week I ordered a PID!

[Mr Magnolia]

Good stuff GRINDER*MAN. Glad to hear you're getting improved results.

I've seen the PID talked about in a few places. Have you any good reading material on it? How do you expect it to improve your coffee?

[Gran Hermano]

Good info on adding a PID to a Gaggia here

[Mr Magnolia]

Thanks Gran Hermano, I'll have a read now. Did you consider it yourself?

[Gran Hermano]

Originally Posted by Mr Magnolia

Thanks Gran Hermano, I'll have a read now. Did you consider it yourself?

To be honest, I haven't considered it - maybe I'm becoming complacent - but
I'm pretty happy with the results I'm achieving at the moment with my current
setup. I spent some time over the recent long weekends pondering what I
could do to improve what I'm currently achieving and apart from buying a
bigger roaster there's nothing I feel that warrants investment at the moment.

Never thought I'd reach the point where I'm not looking to splurge more cash
on coffee gear. In 12-18 months I'll probably look at getting a larger
dual-boiler espresso machine but for now I'm happy.

[Mr Magnolia]

Very good. I like my hot drinks hot but the espresso that comes out of the Gaggia has to be left for a couple of minutes to cool. If I thought this PID could/should regulate the temperature to a more consumable level than I would consider it.

[GRINDER*MAN]

Hi All,

There's a good bit of stuff on-line about this:

http://www.toomuchcoffee.com/index.p...ewtopic&t=3316

http://www.thedomesticbarista.com/in...presso_machine.

I've ordered mine from Auberins in the US - they get well reviewed on various sites and the supply an "all in one" kit that's supposedly easy to install. It was $144 + postage which works out at about 105 euro.
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6

I've read a bit about temp surfing but have never got round to learning/perfecting it. Instead I thought about the weak dollar and convinced myself that there was never a better time to buy a PID kit! The hope is that it will be easy to install and will provide some temp stability and more consistent shots. There are arguments against doing this on a gaggia, as the small boiler negates some of the advantages of a PID - on a machine with a bigger boiler the addition of a pid would give you a consistent temp starting point and allow for temp stability throughout the shot, while on a gaggia it really only gives you the same temp starting point each time (e.g. a bit more consistency), so whether it is worth the money remains to be seen.

Its an odd and expensive hobby - if this PID thing doesn't work out I'm thinking of binning the whole thing and going back to jars of Maxwell House!

Will keep you posted!

[Gran Hermano]

Originally Posted by GRINDER*MAN

if this PID thing doesn't work out I'm thinking of binning the whole thing and going back to jars of Maxwell House!

Will keep you posted!

Best of luck with the PID mod, and as for your Maxwell House comments, there is a Humour forum on Boards here

[El Stuntman]

to OP, re. tampers I use a Reg Barber one - was well worth the $50 Canadian or so I paid for it

Palombini beans are excellent, they're what I use myself

might be worthwhile upgrading to the MDF grinder?