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is marriage pointless these days?

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124

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    #92
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Limklad, I have no problem whatsoever with you. Going back to the dad thread in personnel issue, you posted absolutely brilliant advice about not being bitter etc. and putting the kids first. A1 post and one that could be quoted to many women and men in the same situation.

    My issue was, you posted 3/4 links to the Citizens Information site, that is an excellent site, but just like their offices, they can give incorrect or not full information. Obviously and I'd probably have done that myself, with that back up, You posted it here and on the other thread, as Jeremy Clarkson would say, as "FACT".

    Now, I posted 1 link there, that showed it was incorrect.
    The problem was you where looking for information about guardianship in general and not specifically, to married dads seperating.

    Easy mistake to make. I take it you accept the links and "information you posted" where incorrect?

    Your gf may admire you for admitting you where wrong and went on the attack! :rolleyes:

    limklad wrote:
    The revenue/Dept of Finance is discriminating against Single Fathers who are raising Children!!! Court case to be had to force them obtain equal rights as they are in breach of equal rights treaty that they sign up for.

    What details are you referring to? A father raising children gets a One Parent Family credit and a single mans credit of €3,520 in total, same as a married man.
    limklad wrote:
    I know this but if you been reading my previous posts you see that i am arguing that you do not have to get married to gain guardianship as most mothers see what benfit to the child rather than themselves. especially when the mother dies or some unfortunate things happen, and the mother is not contactable for some reason and a decision needs to be taken for the child sake.
    Any statistics on mothers granting voluntarily guardianship and fathers having to get it awarded by the court?
    limklad wrote:
    Again you have proven this for me, another "Thank you", with one exception, Divorce fathers are no longer "married" therefore "unmarried". Again the devil is in the detail, and it is that trap that people fall into.
    Look, I'll post the information again:
    Married parents are automatically joint guardians of their children. Neither separation nor divorce changes this. (A father who is not married to the mother of his child does not have automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. You can read more about the Guardianship status of fathers in Ireland in our separate document on this subject).

    You either accept this is true, or you don't?

    What it comes down to is: unmarried children are illegitimate, yes, that's the language used in the Guardianship Act!

    Children of divorced/seperated fathers aren't. They where married when the kids where born, hence, they're legitimate.

    I didn't want to refer to these terms in 2007, but there you are.

    limklad wrote:
    Where did I state this, again you are wrong and jumping to assumptions about what I have already said.

    Now you are susgesting the the father has to marry the mother to gain guardianship. This can only happen if you marry her before the child was born, otherwise you do not have automatic guardianship as you are not married at the time of birth.
    Now your quoting part sentences! Do you accept the only guarentee of getting guardianship is if you are married? Unmarried fathers are at the mother or judges discretion. I am being slightly technical, but it's the only guarentee of guardianship.
    limklad wrote:
    This thread is full of contentd that you disagree with me more than once!!
    That's why I quoted one paragraph.
    I never said it was a reason but a method of achieve it but not the only one.
    limklad wrote:
    I aggree with you here and post the statistics to prove it and again you have proven my point that guardianship can be awarded without getting married, therefore marriage is pointless and child guardianship and custody can be shared outside marriage.
    Yeah, nothing new there.
    limklad wrote:
    touchy, touchy getting emotional here are you.
    Not all. You back from your planet though!:rolleyes:
    You now accept you have posted incorrect information and links on two different threads?
    limklad wrote:
    To wrap thing up. marriage is pointless for every other reason with the one main exception, that both partners going into it are in love and truely respect each other, otherwise it is cleary pointless and expect it to be doomed.
    Full agreed.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Seems a whole lot of people here are confusing 'weddings' with 'marriage'.
    The wedding is the fluff. You don't have to spend any more than it costs to get married in a registry office to get hitched.
    Weddings generally mean feck all in the grand scheme of marriage.

    As was posted above, I find the people who feel marriage is pointless have not met the person with whom marriage would have a point.


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    #94
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Found this else where , at thought id post here, seeing as we've had a few around lately ...

    An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

    Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

    Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

    Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can not be changed by mere words.
    Some people particularly those who have been online for years are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."

    It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

    Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

    Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

    The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.

    When you suspect that somebody is a troll, you might try responding with a polite, mild message to see if it's just somebody in a bad mood. Internet users sometimes let their passions get away from them when seated safely behind their keyboard. If you ignore their bluster and respond in a pleasant manner, they usually calm down.

    However, if the person persists in being beastly, and seems to enjoy being unpleasant, the only effective position is summed up as follows:

    The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

    When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. When you scream at a troll, he wins. The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored.
    As already stated, it is futile to try to "cure" a troll of his obsession. But perhaps you simply cannot bear the hostile environment that the troll is creating and want to go away for a while.

    If you do that, then for the sake of the others on the system, please do not post a dramatic "Goodbye!" message. This convinces the troll that he is winning the battle. There is, perhaps, no message you can write on a message system that is as damaging as an announcement that you are leaving because of the hostility that the troll has kindled.

    If you feel you must say something, a discreet message to the system operator (and some of the others users, if you have their email addresses) is the best course of action. Incidentally, if you are writing the letter in an agitated state, it is a good idea to wait an hour and then give it one last review before you actually send it. That might spare you the pain of saying things that you don't really mean to people you like.

    When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed.
    Regular net users know how delightful it is when somebody responds to something they have written. It is a meeting of the minds, which is an intellectual thrill, but it is also an acknowledgement of one's value — and that can be a very satisfying emotional reward.

    Trolls crave attention, and they care not whether it is positive or negative. They see the Internet as a mirror into which they can gaze in narcissistic rapture.
    Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this:

    The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

    By posting such a message, you let the troll know that you know what he is, and that you are not going to get dragged into his twisted little hobby.

    I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because of an excellent post for a dad afte his wife left him with the kids.

    However, if he can't accept that he gave wrong advice and posted incorrect links on 2 different threads within a day or two, well...........

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #95
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    limklad wrote:
    I never expect anyone to share if they do not want to.

    Good for you, but Are you sure? Innocent love, how it managed to cloud over the cracks. :eek:

    If you were you would not have the following insecurity!! :D
    It must be you browser I do not see it. As my text is in black.:p

    My girlfriend is laughing while reading these posts, she tell me how easy it is to rub other people noses the wrong way, just by having an opinion or people misreading other people posts and attacking them as she puts it when they responds.

    I want her or any future prospective wife to know all my faults and accept that and vica versa.
    Hi.
    You'll have to be logged out to read this, but could you relate the following out to your girlfriend, please?

    "limklad has just been banned from After Hours for trolling."

    Now picture the scene from the Simpsons, where the Simpson family are burning the Flanders' at the stake.
    "Now who's laughing? Now who's laughing?"

    That is all.


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    #96
    gamer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭gamer


    I think after ten years rate of marriage breakdown is 50 percent.THERES some tax breaks for married couples, if one partner dies the other one gets most of the estate unless theres a will made to prevent this.IN the eyes of the law its a legal contract to provide financial support to your wife for the rest of your life, even after you get divorced,even if you have no kids .MY advice to anyone wait at least 6 years into a relationship, unless everything is absolutely perfect dont get marrried. THE average divorce costs at least 10k in legal fees.Marriage is a great way to make solicitors rich , cos 50percent of couples end up breaking up ,or divorcing.BUT i understand theres social pressure in some areas for people to get married ,but theres loadsa people with kids who never bother getting married.


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    #97
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    Orange69 wrote: »
    Imo marriage is pretty much pointless*...

    If people are happy together then it wont change anything and its not like someone who decides they want out will hang in there just because they are married.. I have seen the aftermath of a couple of divorces and its pretty scary how ****ed up people get in the cross fire (especially dudes)... Seems worse than a regular breakup...

    Plus there is the cost of the whole thing!!


    *nothing got to do with the fact that im single.. ahem..

    I do think blokes generally take break ups worse but thats just my experience maybe thats a lot to do with it nearly always being the females decision?


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    #98
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Methinks the 80% cheating poll cited is bull! I'll bet the sample they polled was biased in some ways. Probably from some magazine survey with a narrowly defined audience, or some special interest group? Plus, I would bet that their research methodology and analysis may be problematic, too.

    In any case, marriage is not pointless for couples who truly love one another. Further, it is not pointless for their children in many ways. Sure, there may be close relationships that have dependent children that work, but I have always wondered why they don't tie the knot?

    There are also other practical reasons that benefit couples and their dependent children from both legal, inheritance, and employment benefits standpoints.

    A few years ago I might have thought the 80% was a bit high but to be honest the older I get teh more I realise my old romantic ideals were fantasy. I know of so many people who are married (30s or less) or engaged who have cheated ro are cheating its amazing!


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    #99
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    bullpost wrote: »
    An interesting angle to the OP's question is that a section of society that has all the perceived advantages of relationships without the hassle of marriage i.e. gay couples, are pushing to be able to marry!

    I suppose they're the real romantics? Maybe gay people are more faithful I dont honestly know enough about teh gay scene anywhere to comment on that??


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    #100
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    Terry wrote: »
    A friend of mine got married today.

    I'll ask him if he thinks it's pointless at the reception later.
    Then I'll try to score with his wife.

    :D


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    #101
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    Nah she is right.

    Far too many fools get married.

    People just seem to get married and/or have kids because it's the done thing, rather than having a huge commitment to it.


    I thnk that happens all the time these days I know of a few guys (and I am a guy so people dont think I am a feminist guy-basher:D) who have cheated on their then fiances numerous times and they still married the girls so I ask the question is that just because its the done thing?


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    #102
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    Tha Gopher wrote: »
    You call decent tax credits and having a second person paying the mortgage financial suicide? A bigger financial suicide is buying a one bedroom flat for 180,000 when you are 27, meeting a girl maybe 5 years down, decide to settle/start family/buy real house and then you have a poxy sale price on your flat because in 2012 nobody wants to live in an overpriced boxroom.

    Try 360K for a one bedroom in some parts of Dublin I have seen recently :eek:that it financial suicide we'll see how long one beds get these prices not too long I suspect! ;)


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    #103
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Marriage is a bit crazy alright. Look at the cost of a wedding and then the cost of a divorce and that's before taking other things into account. Does everyone getting married now do up a prenup?

    I think Gabriele Pauli might be onto something here!!


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    #104
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    UB wrote: »
    Recently dumped?

    but thats below the belt imo.


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    #105
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    CathyMoran wrote: »
    OK, I admit I am a newly wed - but I was with my husband for 9 years on and off before I married him. In the end it came down to me wanting to have him officially as family in front of the state, God and our family and friends. There is something special in being married to your soul mate.


    Is it just me or is the state comment a bit strange , i.e. what does that mean legally?? Being serious for once :D


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    #106
    queenlex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭queenlex


    just to apologise for sending so many responses in a row I hadnt got around to llooking at the thread for a few days. I think sometimes people take peoples comments too personally everyone has different experiences and I have to say I enjoy the banter unless its gratuitously nasty or something :eek:


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    #107
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I think marriage has the psychological effect of causing a person to feel "trapped", hence the increase in temptation to stray. Like being on a diet - the restriction makes you want what you can't have far more. Therefore, not being married is probably better for your state of mind in that sense, because you still have that window of freedom.


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gamer wrote: »
    I think after ten years rate of marriage breakdown is 50 percent.

    Thats totally false, the mid life crisis brigade have the highest rate of just under 19%, and in all fairness alot of that generation probably got married by shotgun or just to have sex in the firstplace in good old catholic Ireland.
    Average rate of martial breakdown is 13%


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    #109
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    queenlex wrote: »
    I do think blokes generally take break ups worse but thats just my experience maybe thats a lot to do with it nearly always being the females decision?
    queenlex wrote: »
    A few years ago I might have thought the 80% was a bit high but to be honest the older I get teh more I realise my old romantic ideals were fantasy. I know of so many people who are married (30s or less) or engaged who have cheated ro are cheating its amazing!
    queenlex wrote: »
    I suppose they're the real romantics? Maybe gay people are more faithful I dont honestly know enough about teh gay scene anywhere to comment on that??
    queenlex wrote: »
    but thats below the belt imo.
    queenlex wrote: »
    Is it just me or is the state comment a bit strange , i.e. what does that mean legally?? Being serious for once :D
    queenlex wrote: »
    just to apologise for sending so many responses in a row I hadnt got around to llooking at the thread for a few days. I think sometimes people take peoples comments too personally everyone has different experiences and I have to say I enjoy the banter unless its gratuitously nasty or something :eek:
    queenlex wrote: »
    Try 360K for a one bedroom in some parts of Dublin I have seen recently :eek:that it financial suicide we'll see how long one beds get these prices not too long I suspect! ;)

    Use multi-quote.
    It's the button beside the quote one.


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    #110
    CathyMoran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭CathyMoran


    queenlex wrote: »
    Is it just me or is the state comment a bit strange , i.e. what does that mean legally?? Being serious for once :D
    I meant to be covered from a legal perspective. At the time that I got married I did not think that I had long to live (I had cancer) and I wanted my husband to have a say over my health, my death and to get a widower's pension - maybe I got married for morbid reasons but I do know that when I first got diagnosed the most important thing for me was to be married to my husband, to be settled. I think that marriage is a wonderful thing - I feel safe and loved being with my husband and that is priceless. When I was at my lowest point (close to death) he was there for me to bring me back to life. I know that you could say that about a close partnership but there is something about declaring to everyone that you love this person that makes the bond stronger.


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    #111
    chambers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭chambers


    queenlex wrote: »
    Does anyone else wonder about the point of marriage these days? With polls recently saying that in 80% of relatonships at least one person cheats/ has cheated is there any point as its less hassle to just break up with the boyfriend/girlfriend?


    I mean we are not ever meant to be a monogamous species,,we are meant to spend out lives enjoying as much good quality sexuality experiences with a variety of people as possible..marriage goes against out what it means to be human..i mean we all need to have long term relationships..but they should never be sexually exclusive..marriage is all about inheritance and parenting obligations..i agree these legal aspects need to be covered if you have children.but today with the availability of contraception why should we have boring monogamous lives..marriage equals stagnation and boredom..after the honeymoon period is over,,marriage if your lucky develops into a friendship and a child rearing contract..which is ok ..but we should be free to enjoy our sexuality throughout our whole lives..and no one should dictate to us what to do..:D


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    #112
    chambers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭chambers


    Dudess wrote: »
    I think marriage has the psychological effect of causing a person to feel "trapped", hence the increase in temptation to stray. Like being on a diet - the restriction makes you want what you can't have far more. Therefore, not being married is probably better for your state of mind in that sense, because you still have that window of freedom.

    i totally agree with you..the week after i bought a house with my boyfriend,,i went and shagged two people i met in the pub..imagine if i got married..i would be out of control.I hadn't done that in 7 years...when people feel trapped it has that effect that it makes them what to get out..marriage is unnatural,,i mean no one should have the right to dictate to us that we don't shag another person.even your husband..ok it will cost me in a divorce..its not a clever thing to do..but we are all adults and can basically do what the **** we want..when we want..:cool:


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    #113
    chambers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭chambers


    :rolleyes:
    Elessar wrote: »
    Yes it's pointless. Also financial suicide.

    I cant help but snigger when I hear one of my co-workers calling his fiance every f*cking hour cos they're just so much in love. Wait until your 40 mate, you'll hardly have a conversation with your wife, if you're still married that is, which you wont be after one of you cheats or falls "out of love" with the other and everything becomes routine. The you loose the house, your car, your money and your life.

    Oh the naive.

    totally agree.i can see that happening to everyones relationship eventually..it just turns into stagnation and boredom..you take each other for granted..well its bound too in the end...marriage is just created to make sure we all have no fun in life and become miserable..i'm avoiding it like the plague..i'm with my partner many years and i'm never ever getting married..it makes me kind of sick to think about it..its just so crap..i mean you have to loose all your stuff just for a bit of a ride..


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    #114
    chambers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭chambers


    biko wrote: »
    It's never pointless to declare your devotion and love for someone publicly.
    However, people just don't live up to expectations any more.

    but no one actually gives a damn about your relationship,so why bother declaring it to anyone.keep it to yourself:confused:.all they care about is the free drink and a bit of dinner..


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    #115
    chambers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭chambers


    queenlex wrote: »
    I thnk that happens all the time these days I know of a few guys (and I am a guy so people dont think I am a feminist guy-basher:D) who have cheated on their then fiances numerous times and they still married the girls so I ask the question is that just because its the done thing?

    people just do it to please their parents..cause its the done thing..most of the time its probably meaningless cause its just so routine....just a day out with lots of food and drink..:D


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    #116
    chambers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭chambers


    limklad wrote: »
    They are as useless as the paddywagon in space, as they have no legal basis in this country!!
    yeh they are not recognised at all in this country..farmers:cool: want to bring them in..


  • Options
    #117
    m83
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭m83


    CathyMoran wrote: »
    I meant to be covered from a legal perspective. At the time that I got married I did not think that I had long to live (I had cancer) and I wanted my husband to have a say over my health, my death and to get a widower's pension - maybe I got married for morbid reasons but I do know that when I first got diagnosed the most important thing for me was to be married to my husband, to be settled. I think that marriage is a wonderful thing - I feel safe and loved being with my husband and that is priceless. When I was at my lowest point (close to death) he was there for me to bring me back to life. I know that you could say that about a close partnership but there is something about declaring to everyone that you love this person that makes the bond stronger.

    That's really sweet :)


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    #118
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    you'll find the majority of people who believe marriage to be pointless will be men. How many women would like the idea of bearing the child of their partner only for him to leave her with the child because he's gotten bored of the sex or their relationship.

    Marriage is a sign of trust, security and commitment. Its only in this day in age that it has become more symbolic then actual, with people rarely paying attention to what it is supposed to mean.


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    #119
    Brian017
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Brian017


    Yeah it is, like everything else in life imo.


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    #120
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    no. nothing is every pointless if it is of worth to you personally.

    if you dont see the need or the reason for being married, then i suggest you dont do it.

    otherwise, being married is one of the best things in life.


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    #121
    Fwaggle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 184 ✭✭Fwaggle


    chambers wrote: »
    i totally agree with you..the week after i bought a house with my boyfriend,,i went and shagged two people i met in the pub..imagine if i got married..i would be out of control.

    Stop making excuses for being a tramp.


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