[r3nu4l]

Now, I know that some people say both are correct but I prefer fora. The problem is that most times I say "fora" I'm asked "WTF???!!!".

I have recently found myself using "forums" on occassion in an effort to reach the masses. So am I dumbing down or am I technically correct in using "forums".

I'm in needage of helpage on this oneage!

[Mr Magnolia]

I use 'forums' for fear of mocking. If I'm told 'fora' is fine then 'fora' it will be.

[punka]

"Fora" is technically correct, but since "forums" so commonly you're probably best sticking with that. I consulted Fowler's, the bible on such things, and he says:

All that can safely be said is that there is a tendency to abandon the Latin plurals, & that when one is really in doubt which to use the English form should be given the preference.

[Pherekydes]

Go with the latin plurals. The masses are beneath you. They should be made to understand this.

I have recently seen indexes, matrixes and radiuses. I loathe them.

[r3nu4l]

^^ I like your thinking SlowCoach!

I have found myself thinking about this recently in terms of job interviews. A colleague of mine who recently joined our firm said that he had used a latin plural in an interview and had been "corrected" by the interviewer.

That's the danger you face when in these situations, the person interviewing you thinks you are wrong and therefore makes an incorrect judgement about you!

[nuac]

Originally Posted by Pherekydes

Go with the latin plurals. The masses are beneath you. They should be made to understand this.

I have recently seen indexes, matrixes and radiuses. I loathe them.

a agree with Pherekydes. English is being dumbed down too much already.

[Boulevardier]

Some battles are not winnable. Forums/fora is one such, and referendums/referenda is another.

[Janey_Mac]

Those Latin words were borrowed into English a long long time ago. I think it really should be acceptable by now to treat them the same as the natives (and the myriad other borrowings gone native).

I mean, do you worry about the correct Norse plural for skirt? Or the correct Czech plural for robot? Or the Hindi plural for bungalow? No, you use your English pluralisation rule.

These words (referendum, forum etc.) have been going native for a long time now, and it tends to be academically-inclined pedants (and I totally include myself there) who are holding onto the original plurals (or their approximation of what the original plurals might have been only they don't actually know any Latin.)

Of course, the problem is what your listeners will think, and that one will have to be a judgement call on your part!

[Mr. Presentable]

Fora is correct through noble lineage. Forums is correct through common usage. I prefer nobility.

[Janey_Mac]

Originally Posted by nuac

a agree with Pherekydes. English is being dumbed down too much already.

Those aren't dumbings-down! They're making Latin words conform to English pluralisation rules. Which makes sense since we speak English and very very few people encounter a Latin class in their lives these days.

Look at all the vocabulary we have that's borrowed that has our rules applied to it! Do you think using the plural "bungalows" instead of whatever the Hindi should be is dumbing down? Do you order "two espressi" from your favourite coffee vendor, because "espressos" is dumbing down?

[Janey_Mac]

Originally Posted by Mr. Presentable

Fora is correct through noble lineage. Forums is correct through common usage. I prefer nobility.

Why do you use the word noble?

[Mr. Presentable]

Originally Posted by Janey_Mac

Why do you use the word noble?

I LIKE it

[Janey_Mac]

Disclaimer: I love indices, matrices, fora, referenda and (god help me) octopodes.

I love words that are out of the ordinary, I love working out the rules that they're abiding by.

I just don't think I'm right. (I do think I'm interesting in a very nerdy way though.)

[Janey_Mac]

Originally Posted by Mr. Presentable

I LIKE it

That is the best reason in the world. I salute you, noble Mr. Presentable!

[spacetweek]

When a language borrows a foreign word the word goes through a period of naturalisation. This can take a long or short time depending on how different the two languages are and how tolerant the new language is of non-standard words.

The word starts off as a conscious foreign borrowing, then later becomes a normal, but noticeably foreign word, before finally becoming accepted as a local term.

In Japanese, for example, an English word is immediately respelled to match Japanese pronunciation rules. French leaves English words alone for longer before finally (and inconsistently) making changes to them.
English, however, rarely changes foreign borrowings to force them to match English spelling an pronunciation rules, and only very slowly forces them to comply with our grammar.
"Czech", for example, is the only word in English spelled with a cz and there is no sign of this changing. French spells this word "Tchec".

Note that naturalisation is not dumbing-down; it is a perfectly normal development observable in all languages.

In the case of Latin words like forum, it has a long history in English. It is at this stage an English word, not Latin. Fora is its original plural in its source language, but this is only really of interest to linguists. Forums is the correct plural to use. (Note that "Octopi" is a spurious plural for the word octopus; this word is Greek, not Latin, so its correct original plural is octopodes, and its correct plural in English is octopuses.)

Note that the plural form which is used more often might not necessarily be the correct one.

English is very laissez-faire in this respect, too much so in my opinion. We don't enforce our own rules often enough and even when we do it is in a lackadaisical manner. For example, indexes and indices are both used often - we should just be standardising on one.

The poster that noted the unpleasant plurals radiuses, indexes and matrixes is due to a particular problem with euphony here - these words all end in s (x is just "ks" written with a special letter) and adding "-es" to such words results in clunky pronunciations.

Originally Posted by Janey_Mac

Disclaimer: I love indices, matrices, fora, referenda and (god help me) octopodes.

I love words that are out of the ordinary, I love working out the rules that they're abiding by.

That's fine - so they are of interest to you because you're interested in linguistics (I assume). Does that mean they should be officially spelled that way too? Just so linguists can have something to discuss? Surely not! Languages are simply a vehicle for expressing thoughts. Their grammar and spelling is a functional, not artistic, part of that system.

Ideally the only acceptable plural of forum would be forums and a dictionary would state "Original Latin plural 'fora' ". This way interested parties could find out the word's history but regular people wouldn't need to know. English is fast becoming the world's lingua franca and it is out of our hands now. We need the lingua franca to be better structured.