[robindch]

Critical thinking is equally applicable in politics and history, but frequently ignored in order to propagate or validate one viewpoint or another, usually one in which the propagator has invested significant time and energy. History and politics and many other topics also often seek an agreed "interpretation" which isn't much different from an opinion on whatever's up for discussion. This is far less common in science and engineering where one must eventually submit to nature as judge. One can't "interpret" an airplane up into the sky, for example.

In your second point about the IDF, you're mixing up the epistemological meaning of the word "critical" (implying systematic thought) with the more normal daily usage (implying disapproval of). One can be critical, for example, of medical science, while approving of it.

[philologos]

Originally Posted by Tim Robbins

Reason 6:
Poor education or not very good at critical thinking.

Firstly you say that theists have a poor education and aren't good at critical thinking.

Originally Posted by Tim Robbins

However, that said, I do find a lot of fanatic or fundamentalist Christians are quite poorly educated in Science for example.

Then you say this. Just because you have met some fanatic and fundementalist Christians who do not have a knowledge in Science doesn't mean that they could not be very well educated in other fields. It's not a crime not to pursue a career in science you know. This is where I think your viewpoint is fundementally flawed. That is like saying that atheists aren't well educated because a few of them don't have a decent education in modern politics.

(again using the critical mind that theists aren't supposed to have)

[Zombrex]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

What makes you think I haven't ever employed critical thinking into Christianity?

Other than the fact that you are still a Christian ...

Seriously though, I've had discussions with you Jakkass about various aspects of Christian belief and "critical thinking" was not the first thing that springs out from your posts... quite the opposite in fact, as demonstrated below

Originally Posted by Jakkass

Sure I've questioned my beliefs before but the spiritual connection that I have had with God

Well there you go.

Why do you think that you actually have a spiritual connection with God in the first place. Have you not applied critical thinking to this, have you not considered the other (far more likely) explanations for what you experience?

I think the real barrier that stops theists from really applying critical thinking to their own religion is that they don't want to confront answers that they don't like.

Originally Posted by Jakkass

, alongside the fact that it is pretty possible for a supreme power to have done what he has done in Biblical accounts my faith has kept with me thankfully.

Again, there you go

What makes you think anything in the Bible is actually true? That doesn't sound like critical thinking at all. In fact it sounds like wishful thinking in the extreme.

Why have you not applied critical thinking to the Bible?

But again you have a vested interest in wanting this stuff to be true. Which means that it is very hard for you to actually apply critical thinking to any of this, since I doubt you actually want to confront any uncomfortable conclusions from said critical thinking.

[Scofflaw]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

Firstly you say that theists have a poor education and aren't good at critical thinking.

Not what the statement says - it says one possible reason people become theists is through "poor education or not [being] very good at critical thinking."

If you leave aside Christianity for a moment, surely this is one reason that you would see people worshipping idols or fetishes?

Originally Posted by Jakkass

Then you say this. Just because you have met some fanatic and fundementalist Christians who do not have a knowledge in Science doesn't mean that they could not be very well educated in other fields. It's not a crime not to pursue a career in science you know. This is where I think your viewpoint is fundementally flawed. That is like saying that atheists aren't well educated because a few of them don't have a decent education in modern politics.

I think here TR quite specifically means "Creationists". To claim to be able to evaluate the evidence for Creation certainly does require scientific education.

cordially,
Scofflaw

[JC 2K3]

Jakkass, would you be open to the possibility that perhaps I feel the same "spiritual connection" with God as you do, yet I simply don't recognise it as a "connection with God", but a normal, natural human feeling?

[JC 2K3]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

Firstly you say that theists have a poor education and aren't good at critical thinking.

Ugh, he said that a POSSIBLE REASON for one being a theist could be that they are poorly educated, the same way a possible reason for one being an atheist could be that they simply are an angsty teenager who wants to rebel to be "cool". He didn't say ALL theists were poorly educated.

[Tim Robbins]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

Firstly you say that theists have a poor education and aren't good at critical thinking.

Incorrect. I say that is one possible reason why Christians are Christians.
I clarified that comment so did other posters.

Then you say this. Just because you have met some fanatic and fundementalist Christians who do not have a knowledge in Science doesn't mean that they could not be very well educated in other fields. It's not a crime not to pursue a career in science you know. This is where I think your viewpoint is fundementally flawed. That is like saying that atheists aren't well educated because a few of them don't have a decent education in modern politics.

I was referring only to Science not to other fields. A good education in Science renders a fantactical viewpoint in Religion, God or Theology nigh impossible.
An education in many other fields, made not affect one's fanatical belief in God / Religion / Theology. I never said it did, so where do you disagree with me?

[Tim Robbins]

Originally Posted by JC 2K3

Ugh, he said that a POSSIBLE REASON for one being a theist could be that they are poorly educated, the same way a possible reason for one being an atheist could be that they simply are an angsty teenager who wants to rebel to be "cool". He didn't say ALL theists were poorly educated.

Thank you.

[philologos]

Originally Posted by JC 2K3

Jakkass, would you be open to the possibility that perhaps I feel the same "spiritual connection" with God as you do, yet I simply don't recognise it as a "connection with God", but a normal, natural human feeling?

Yes I'm sure that God has tried to reach out to you before. You mightn't had chosen to accept it. That's perfectly valid. I know that it is a spiritual connection as it generally, only happens when I think of God or communicate to the divine in prayer, or read what God has passed down through scripture, or look around at His world and think of what He must had done to create it. It doesn't seem probable to me that it is yet another conspiracy.

[Zombrex]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

I know that it is a spiritual connection as it generally, only happens when I think of God or communicate to the divine in prayer, or read what God has passed down through scripture, or look around at His world and think of what He must had done to create it.

Again that is completely devoid of critical thinking ... you are simply validating Tim's initial claim ...

Originally Posted by Jakkass

It doesn't seem probable to me that it is yet another conspiracy.

And what do you think every other religion in the world that has ever existed was/is ... why do you think your religion is any more probable than any other religion (and there have been quite a few)?

[philologos]

I've asked myself if the feeling came from anything else. However the evidence, i.e it occurring when I read the Bible or try to communicate with God and look at the world around me, indicates that it is because of my faith that I have such a strong feeling in God deep down. If you got the same feeling every time you did these things you would also agree that it must be God that is driving it.

[bluewolf]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

I've asked myself if the feeling came from anything else. However the evidence, i.e it occurring when I read the Bible or try to communicate with God and look at the world around me, indicates that it is because of my faith that I have such a strong feeling in God deep down. If you got the same feeling every time you did these things you would also agree that it must be God that is driving it.

Only because you already think it's god, not necessarily because it is god.

I'm thinking about god => happy feeling

[philologos]

isn't as simple as a "happy feeling" bluewolf. It's a feeling of power and liberation, that I wouldn't have if I didn't have faith.

[bluewolf]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

isn't as simple as a "happy feeling" bluewolf. It's a feeling of power and liberation, that I wouldn't have if I didn't have faith.

I don't think you've tried being happy without your faith and without needing to feel it to be fulfilled, so I doubt you can really claim that
and no, an angsty "I questioned my faith once" definitely does not count since that would also be centred on the faith

[Tim Robbins]

Originally Posted by Jakkass

Yes I'm sure that God has tried to reach out to you before. You mightn't had chosen to accept it. That's perfectly valid. I know that it is a spiritual connection as it generally, only happens when I think of God or communicate to the divine in prayer, or read what God has passed down through scripture, or look around at His world and think of what He must had done to create it. It doesn't seem probable to me that it is yet another conspiracy.

Can you reply to my post 52 please?