[BeerNut]

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

Your mate never mentioned the packaging, just the product. I agree that the product is consistent, however the packaging (glass) that it is served in affects quality very, very much.

He said "storage and serving", which is what a glass is for a pint.

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

AFAIK Diageo are an Italian company.

Nope. English. Headquartered at Lakeside Drive, London.

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

as watery as a pint of Budweiser.

Or as watery as a 5 or 6 year-old memory of a pint of Budweiser, perhaps?

[MCMLXXV]

Great - fair play, kudos and well done!

The fact remains that draught beer quality can vary greatly from one establishment to the next. I think I've explained why very well at this stage.

Your point is moot.

[BaZmO*]

MCMLXXV, the fact that you keep typing Guinness in capitals says an awful lot about their marketing campaign.

I’ve had a few bad pints down through the years, and no doubt, many other people have too, but I see that as a law of averages more than anything else. For a long long time, Guinness was my draught beer of choice so of course I’m going to get the odd stinker.

And the dirty glass argument imo is a weak argument. That’d mean that it would affect the bottled beer just as much, and I have never once heard someone say about a bar, “Jaysis, they serve a terrible bottle of beer there”

In my experience, a dirty glass, and by that I mean a glass from the dishwasher, just affects head retention. Now obviously, a filthy dirty glass would have an affect but I don’t think we’re talking about that level of dirtiness?

[MCMLXXV]

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

MCMLXXV, the fact that you keep typing Guinness in capitals says an awful lot about their marketing campaign.

I’ve had a few bad pints down through the years, and no doubt, many other people have too, but I see that as a law of averages more than anything else. For a long long time, Guinness was my draught beer of choice so of course I’m going to get the odd stinker.

And the dirty glass argument imo is a weak argument. That’d mean that it would affect the bottled beer just as much, and I have never once heard someone say about a bar, “Jaysis, they serve a terrible bottle of beer there”

In my experience, a dirty glass, and by that I mean a glass from the dishwasher, just affects head retention. Now obviously, a filthy dirty glass would have an affect but I don’t think we’re talking about that level of dirtiness?

Bazmo,

Have you or BeerNut ever worked in a pub? I have done, in many - from 1990 until 2007, i.e. I have 17 years experience pulling pints. I have managed pubs, clubs and hotels in Ireland, Germany & Belgium. I've also been a GUINNESS (has always been spelled with caps) drinker since I am 15. I am 35 today - do the maths yourself.

Therefore I am very well qualified in relation to what practices affect draught beer quality. As you are aware breweries make every effort to ensure consitency and tend to do so very well but once the beer hits the tap this is where their control ends. Poor practices in relation to glass hygiene is one of the major factors affecting beer quality today - ask any technician and they will tell you the same.

When I say poor hygiene practices, I am not necessarily saying that the glass in question is feckin manky. I am saying that a glass that affects beer quality is not, what is known in the trade as, 'beer clean'. A beer clean glass is a glass devoid of residues like grease or detergent. Grease and detergent residues greatly affect beer quality.

Take your dishwasher at home. It has plates with caked on food yet can remove same in one cycle and give you gleaming crockery. Therefore the detergent is very strong. Try putting one of your beer glasses at home through this machine - it will come out all sparkly but is most definitely not beer clean. (Note: most pubs wouldn't use detergent this strong)

Take another glass very carefully hand wash to ensure there is no residue left on the glass. The best test to ensure your glass is residue free is to use the water break test. If the water does not 'sheet' your glass is not clean. Now pour a beer into both glasses, the 'beer clean' glass and the one from your dishwasher. You will notice that with the beer clean glass the head is retained, no bubbles stick to the side of the glass and the beer tastes good. With the dishwasher glass the head will deteriorate very quickly, bubbles will stick to the residue on the sides of the glass and beer quality is affected.

So if there is residue from strong detergent or grease from food service clinging to your glassware this will most definitely affect beer quality. Be it draught, bottled or canned beer, once it is poured into a contaminated glass the product will deteriorate.

Q.E.D.

[BaZmO*]

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

Bazmo,

Have you or BeerNut ever worked in a pub?

Yep. My first job was working in a pub, and I’ve worked part time as a bar man down through the years, not much but I’ve enough experience to know what I’m talking about. And just like Beernut, I brew my own beer. So I’d say I have a fair idea about what it takes to make a nice pint.

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

I've also been a GUINNESS (has always been spelled with caps) drinker since I am 15. I am 35 today - do the maths yourself.

But why not use the correct font when saying Carlsberg then? It’s the affects of marketing.

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

Therefore I am very well qualified in relation to what practices affect draught beer quality. As you are aware breweries make every effort to ensure consitency and tend to do so very well but once the beer hits the tap this is where their control ends. Poor practices in relation to glass hygiene is one of the major factors affecting beer quality today - ask any technician and they will tell you the same.

Can you define exactly what you mean by “beer quality” please. Are you talking taste or appearance?

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

Take your dishwasher at home. It has plates with caked on food yet can remove same in one cycle and give you gleaming crockery. Therefore the detergent is very strong. Try putting one of your beer glasses at home through this machine - it will come out all sparkly but is most definitely not beer clean. (Note: most pubs wouldn't use detergent this strong)

Take another glass very carefully hand wash to ensure there is no residue left on the glass. The best test to ensure your glass is residue free is to use the water break test. If the water does not 'sheet' your glass is not clean. Now pour a beer into both glasses, the 'beer clean' glass and the one from your dishwasher. You will notice that with the beer clean glass the head is retained, no bubbles stick to the side of the glass and the beer tastes good. With the dishwasher glass the head will deteriorate very quickly, bubbles will stick to the residue on the sides of the glass and beer quality is affected.

I know, that’s why I said I don’t use a dishwasher for glasses at home.

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

So if there is residue from strong detergent or grease from food service clinging to your glassware this will most definitely affect beer quality. Be it draught, bottled or canned beer, once it is poured into a contaminated glass the product will deteriorate.

We all agree on that, but the point still stands, why does the good pint myth only surround Guinness?

[MCMLXXV]

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

Yep. My first job was working in a pub, and I’ve worked part time as a bar man down through the years, not much but I’ve enough experience to know what I’m talking about. And just like Beernut, I brew my own beer. So I’d say I have a fair idea about what it takes to make a nice pint.

Fair play, would love to have the time and patience to do it myself. How much do you know about glass hygiene and how it effects beer quality? If you are a brewer you should know that hygiene is the height of importance and poor practice will affect your beer quality.

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

But why not use the correct font when saying Carlsberg then? It’s the affects of marketing.

Because I'm pedantic. G u i n n e s s. Happy?

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

Can you define exactly what you mean by “beer quality” please. Are you talking taste or appearance?

Both

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

I know, that’s why I said I don’t use a dishwasher for glasses at home.

Well done!

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

We all agree on that, but the point still stands, why does the good pint myth only surround Guinness?

I don't know for sure. Maybe it's becuase a lot of pubs sell nearly as much Guinness as other lagers combined. A lot of drinkers drink Guinness Not as many drink Carlsberg for example.

[MCMLXXV]

Originally Posted by the beer revolu

I can't help feeling that this thread is a bit like asking 'where in Ireland is the best Big Mac?' !

Both Guinness and Big Macs are mass produced and mass marketed.
Both are carefully engineered to be consistent in ever outlet.
Both cater for a wide demographic.
And both probably vary slightly from outlet to outlet depending on factors such as freshness, storage and serving.
And possibly the ambience is far better in some Mc D's than others!

One difference, though.....anyone can find out the ingredients in a Big Mac pretty easily.

So, where is the best Big Mac in Ireland??

And the dirty glass argument imo is a weak argument. That’d mean that it would affect the bottled beer just as much, and I have never once heard someone say about a bar, “Jaysis, they serve a terrible bottle of beer there”

In my experience, a dirty glass, and by that I mean a glass from the dishwasher, just affects head retention. Now obviously, a filthy dirty glass would have an affect but I don’t think we’re talking about that level of dirtiness?

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

So if there is residue from strong detergent or grease from food service clinging to your glassware this will most definitely affect beer quality. Be it draught, bottled or canned beer, once it is poured into a contaminated glass the product will deteriorate.

We all agree on that

Do we now? Well I am glad I have thought you boys something!

[BaZmO*]

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

Do we now? Well I am glad I have thought you boys something!

Ah now, we all agree that it affects quality (I'd say more on the appearance side) but not to the extent that the perfect pint myth would have you believe.

[MCMLXXV]

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

Ah now, we all agree that it affects quality (I'd say more on the appearance side) but not to the extent that the perfect pint myth would have you believe.

It does - simple as and I have explained why already.

[BaZmO*]

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

It does - simple as and I have explained why already.

You haven't though. But I feel this discussion is quite futile at this stage.

[saintsaltynuts]

Smyths Haddington St. Dublin 4.Long Mile Inn Bar,Walkinstown, Dublin 12 has great pints of stout.

[BeerNut]

Seriously, MCMLXXV, I strongly recommend testing your thesis about the effect of glass hygiene on beer in a controlled environment via a blind tasting. Put a bit of hard evidence behind your theory.

And since you ask, yes, I have worked in behind bars in pubs, clubs and hotels.

[MCMLXXV]

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

You haven't though. But I feel this discussion is quite futile at this stage.

Lets summarise then shall we?

the beer revolu implied that there was pretty much no difference in a pint from one pub to the next.

MCMLXXV explained that there is and why there is (glass hygiene)

BeerNut reckoned this is a myth.

MCMLXXV explained that it's not a myth and why (glass hygiene)

BaZmO* reckons that the dirty glass argument is week, then agrees that it does indeed affect beer quality, then says it doesn't affect it that much

MCMLXXV disagrees and states that he has already explained how poor practice badly affects beer quality.

---------------------------------

As explained I have 17 years exp in the trade, I know very well what I'm talking about. BeerNut, the beer revolu or BaZmO* may not agree with me but they are wrong, very wrong. Once again, glass hygiene greatly affects beer quality, be it in the pub or at home.

--------------------------------

As a side I would ask BeerNut, the beer revolu and BaZmO* to explain what factors they think greatly affects beer quality from one pub to the next if not for the glassware. Or do they really believe that beer quality is virtually the same from one pub to the next?

---------------------------------

Lastly, to the mods, as this topic 'The best pint if Guinness in Dublin/Ireland' has been dragged way off topic could from post 171 on be cut and paste into a new thread in order to get back on topic? Thanks!

[BeerNut]

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

BeerNut reckoned this is a myth.

You've got that wrong. I reckoned the idea that Guinness is uniquely sensitive is a myth. And you agreed, IIRC.

Originally Posted by MCMLXXV

As a side I would ask BeerNut, the beer revolu and BaZmO* to explain what factors they think greatly affects beer quality from one pub to the next if not for the glassware. Or do they really believe that beer quality is virtually the same from one pub to the next?

Both I think quality of any industrial beer is virtually the same from one pub to the next. But I don't have a way of proving it so I'm happy to agree to disagree, unless you have a way of disproving it, of course.

Factors like the lines, the age of the beer and the conditions in which it has been cellared will all affect the quality of any industrial keg beer. As will the glass, of course. For non-pasteurised beer, unfiltered beer, cask beer and beer made on smaller-than-factory-sized kit there will be other factors too, though these aren't relevant to Guinness.

[BaZmO*]

Originally Posted by BeerNut

I think quality of any industrial beer is virtually the same from one pub to the next. But I don't have a way of proving it so I'm happy to agree to disagree, unless you have a way of disproving it, of course.

That'd be pretty much my opinion on the subject.