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Clseeper · 09-05-2006, 09:34

Just a thought. After all the victims get over the initial shock, and thankfully most received little or no injury, two weeks down the line there still left with mangled cars. Who pays for this damage? The bus was reported stolen earlier that morning so the bus company would hardy have to use its public liability insurance? Or would it come under the individual’s policy as accidental damage/Hit & run?

**hullaballoo** · 09-05-2006, 09:39

Mostly under the individuals policy, but the insurance company will probably go after Dualway Coaches. It's going to become quite political as well, so I'd imagine some payments to those who suffered a lot will be forthcoming from Dualway Coaches.

L5 · 09-05-2006, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by hullaballoo

Mostly under the individuals policy, but the insurance company will probably go after Dublin Bus. It's going to become quite political as well, so I'd imagine some payments to those who suffered a lot will be forthcoming from Dublin Bus.

i thought it was a private coach company
"dualyway" or something?

Kinetic^ · 09-05-2006, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by L5

i thought it was a private coach company
"dualyway" or something?

Yeah that's what I thought too. Although Dublin Bus did spring to mind on hearing the headlines.

Clseeper · 09-05-2006, 10:06

But if the bus was stolen, does that exclude the company from any liability? Even though the driver was an employee?

**hullaballoo** · 09-05-2006, 10:35

Both the owner and the driver are responsible as far as I know.

Apologies on the Dublin Bus thing, I just assumed it was them when I heard the story on the news.

maidhc · 09-05-2006, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clseeper

But if the bus was stolen, does that exclude the company from any liability? Even though the driver was an employee?

Vicarious libility will *probably* fail because by going on the rampage with a bus the driver was acting outside his scope of employment. Courts normally do not like inflicting damages on an employer due to an intentional tort or crime committed by their employee.

As regards negligence, the company should also be ok due to the following from Breslin v. Corcoran:

Quote:

"In my view, there is nothing in the present case to suggest that the first-named defendant should have anticipated as a reasonable probability that the car, if stolen, would be driven so carelessly as to cause injury to another user of the road such as the plaintiff."

There is no way the actions of the bus driver were forseeable.

Thirdfox · 09-05-2006, 11:03

Agree with maidhc (and thanks for clearing up a bit of torts for me! - Always thought it was precarious not vicarious liability!

)

jhegarty · 09-05-2006, 11:03

accoring to the news reports i saw the bus wasn't reported stolen for a few hours (4 i think)..after he took the bus...

would that make a difference ?

John R · 09-05-2006, 16:12

Surely the driver's personal insurance would not be liable as in all likelihood it would only be a car policy, employed bus drivers are covered by the employers commercial insurance for work so do not need bus cover on their car insurance.

If as suggested the bus company and their insurance are not liable then would it not all fall on the uninsured drivers scheme from the The Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland.

Dark_lord_ire · 12-05-2006, 00:29

From knowledge of the industry, the bus will be reported as a U/T i.e. stolen the bus company is off the hook. The motor insurers bureau of ireland take over they cover drivers uninsured and pay out to the injured parties. But see they sue the driver them to get back what they lost out on, he wont be able to pay cos lets face it the cost will run into millions ( take damage and legal fees for each seperate claim) he will be sent back to jail on warrents. Which ever way he looks at it he is up a certain creek without a paddle

Our man in Havana · 12-05-2006, 00:50

He won't be able to pay period. If he is convicted he will do his time and get out and he won't be going back inside because he doesn't have the millions of € for claims. It's for this reason we pay a 2% levy to cover uninsured driving.

**Victor** · 12-05-2006, 00:59

We don't know all the facts. Are we certain the bus was reported stolen?

What about the bus company's public liability insurance?

Eru · 12-05-2006, 09:52

Its criminal damage, you claim from your own insurance company the same as if a brick was put through the windscreen or it will fall under an uninsured driver.

Lots of wrangling will happen over this but thats my feeling.

NUTLEY BOY · 12-05-2006, 20:23

Public liability insurance probably does not apply. Public liability policies usually exclude claims arising from use of motor vehicles.

This case probably falls to be dealt with under the motor insurance of the bus operator. There are various argreements with insurance companies and the MIB and the government about this type of case. Whatever insurance company's certificate of insurance was on the bus will probably deal with this as what is called the "insurer concerned" on behalf of the MIB.

I think that Karlitosway1978 has it right about claiming under your own insurance if you have comprehensive cover.

However, I think that if you have comprehensive cover then your insurance company cannot recover their outlay from the bus company insurers as, technically, the bus was not really insured !!

As far as personal injuries claims go there should be no problem for those who were injured and the estate of that most unfortunate lady who was killed.

09-05-2006, 09:34	#1
Clseeper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 238 Adverts \| Friends	Crazy Sunday bus driver, who pays for damage? Just a thought. After all the victims get over the initial shock, and thankfully most received little or no injury, two weeks down the line there still left with mangled cars. Who pays for this damage? The bus was reported stolen earlier that morning so the bus company would hardy have to use its public liability insurance? Or would it come under the individual’s policy as accidental damage/Hit & run?

09-05-2006, 09:39	#2
hullaballoo Oh, Ruubot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: l�g n-enech Posts: 6,593 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Legal Discussion, Spell Czechs	Mostly under the individuals policy, but the insurance company will probably go after Dualway Coaches. It's going to become quite political as well, so I'd imagine some payments to those who suffered a lot will be forthcoming from Dualway Coaches. Last edited by hullaballoo; 09-05-2006 at 10:33.

12-05-2006, 00:29	#11
Dark_lord_ire Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 124 Adverts \| Friends	facts From knowledge of the industry, the bus will be reported as a U/T i.e. stolen the bus company is off the hook. The motor insurers bureau of ireland take over they cover drivers uninsured and pay out to the injured parties. But see they sue the driver them to get back what they lost out on, he wont be able to pay cos lets face it the cost will run into millions ( take damage and legal fees for each seperate claim) he will be sent back to jail on warrents. Which ever way he looks at it he is up a certain creek without a paddle

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09-05-2006, 10:06	#5
Clseeper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 238 Adverts \| Friends	But if the bus was stolen, does that exclude the company from any liability? Even though the driver was an employee?

09-05-2006, 10:35	#6
hullaballoo Oh, Ruubot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: l�g n-enech Posts: 6,593 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Legal Discussion, Spell Czechs	Both the owner and the driver are responsible as far as I know. Apologies on the Dublin Bus thing, I just assumed it was them when I heard the story on the news.

09-05-2006, 11:03	#8
Thirdfox Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 4,868 Adverts \| Friends	Agree with maidhc (and thanks for clearing up a bit of torts for me! - Always thought it was precarious not vicarious liability! )

09-05-2006, 11:03	#9
jhegarty Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 5,188 Adverts \| Friends	accoring to the news reports i saw the bus wasn't reported stolen for a few hours (4 i think)..after he took the bus... would that make a difference ?

09-05-2006, 16:12	#10
John R Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,091 Adverts \| Friends	Surely the driver's personal insurance would not be liable as in all likelihood it would only be a car policy, employed bus drivers are covered by the employers commercial insurance for work so do not need bus cover on their car insurance. If as suggested the bus company and their insurance are not liable then would it not all fall on the uninsured drivers scheme from the The Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland.

12-05-2006, 00:50	#12
Our man in Havana Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 28,891 Adverts \| Friends	He won't be able to pay period. If he is convicted he will do his time and get out and he won't be going back inside because he doesn't have the millions of € for claims. It's for this reason we pay a 2% levy to cover uninsured driving.

12-05-2006, 00:59	#13
Victor Moderator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Dublin Posts: 60,905 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Accommodation & Property, Commuting & Transport, Infrastructure	We don't know all the facts. Are we certain the bus was reported stolen? What about the bus company's public liability insurance?

12-05-2006, 09:52	#14
Eru Closed Account Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,258 Adverts \| Friends	Its criminal damage, you claim from your own insurance company the same as if a brick was put through the windscreen or it will fall under an uninsured driver. Lots of wrangling will happen over this but thats my feeling.

12-05-2006, 20:23	#15
NUTLEY BOY Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 592 Adverts \| Friends	Public liability insurance probably does not apply. Public liability policies usually exclude claims arising from use of motor vehicles. This case probably falls to be dealt with under the motor insurance of the bus operator. There are various argreements with insurance companies and the MIB and the government about this type of case. Whatever insurance company's certificate of insurance was on the bus will probably deal with this as what is called the "insurer concerned" on behalf of the MIB. I think that Karlitosway1978 has it right about claiming under your own insurance if you have comprehensive cover. However, I think that if you have comprehensive cover then your insurance company cannot recover their outlay from the bus company insurers as, technically, the bus was not really insured !! As far as personal injuries claims go there should be no problem for those who were injured and the estate of that most unfortunate lady who was killed.