[Sponge Bob]

Its also time to give eNet or the 'currently contracted' operator of a given MAN the same Easementss that Eircom has going right back to the Victorian Telegraphy Acts or else add eNet to schedule and ensure that fibre is added to the Victorian schedule of Telegraph Apparatususeeens to which the Act applies. Level playing field and all that what what !!!!

Is there not a convenient Comms Bill 2006 yoke a wuffing and a puffing thru Noels Dept as we speak

[watty]

Eircom commercial director David McRedmond told siliconrepublic.com: “We’re baffled as to why €170m of state aid is required in places where we already provide broadband. We provide it to 118 of the 120 towns listed for MANs. More than 85pc of lines in Ireland, bang on the European average, are connected to Eircom exchanges. The real deficit is the last 10 to 15pc of lines. It is not commercially viable for us to cover the last 10pc but the Government should do so because these areas can’t get broadband otherwise.

What about 3.5GHz national FWA that Eircom is sitting on. Chorus did LOTS more with their Wireless phone licence and lost it for not rolling out enough.

Take Eircom's FWA off them and sell licence Cheap to Smart, Magnet, Digiweb , BT or even IBB. Someone prepared to actually use it for those "uneconomic" 15% (probabily really 30%). BT reckons to make profit in 6 months after users are all on-line with that kind of "uneconomic" market.

[eircomtribunal]

Originally Posted by thegills

What about integration of all future MAN's with the existing incumbent's telephone exchanges, so that LLU can come to its intended fruition?
All MAN's are designed to pass by the eircom exchanges. The problems are that eircom keep changing the location of the interconnect chambers and eircom don't have a regulated product that allows 3rd party fibre into their exchanges

If that problem (and the problem of functional LLU automatisation/transfer), wilfully created by Eircom, is not solved, then – and that's exactly what's happening – the cost-benefit equation of the MANs is seriously jinxxed. "DCMNR, we have a problem! And we don't want to be bull****ted about it."
It's mostly civil servants that produce such unbearable nonsense. (And I say that with my own civil servant background and with the confidence that the ones doing an excellent job under whatever circumstances are not offended). They'd send up a crew to a moon mission. The astronauts would never be able to leave the landed capsule, because of a "problem" with the company that refused to design a functional exit ladder, but the civil servants would not stop telling the public: "We are getting wonderful photographs through the capsule's windows and the mission is fully on time and on budget", keeping very quiet about the fact that the mission is not on target.

The MANs project is not quite the surgeons case of "operation was immensely successful; the patient unfortunately died" – but its severe limitations should not any longer be pasted over, as has been done up to now.
No government with any self-respect should continue the cat and mouse game Eircom's dirty bunch of managers has chosen to play. eircom may well "not have a regulated product that allows 3rd party fibre into their exchanges", but that should be irrelevant. Gov (and not the Comms Minister on his own) has to have the authority and the guts to call in the bunch and let them know in no uncertain terms that they better stop the fooling around. And the Babcockians at the gate should be told the same in no uncertain terms in a timely manner.

What about modifying MAN's to fibre to the curb and fibre to the premises models?
This is too expensive. An alternative would be to integrate e-net managed high sites / masts into the MAN design. Wireless broadband coupled with LLU should satisfy residential needs
Fibre to the premises is just too hard to rollout as it takes an eternity to ascertain ownership of land or buildings and then get a way leave. This would severly hinder the ability to rollout the MAN

What does it say about a gov.?: We know that other countries are engaging now in starting their fibre to the home/curb networks; we know that we should not again be left behind, but its just not feasible how we could do it; we won't even give it a try with one of the new MANs projects in order to get to know what the real and practical experiences with this matter are; we rather finish all the MAN projects on time, close the eyes and get trough with them, let's not think about them not being on target in some/most/all of the smaller places.

Spongebobs suggestion about giving access is one obvious practical solution to implement.
I wonder, how the hell did we ever get electricity, telephone and cable to houses?

What about finding an answer to the still unanswered question, what a MAN can do for a place like Kiltimagh, can ever be expected to do, before similar projects are done in the same way?
There are a number of potential MAN customers in Manorhamilton. ADSL is no use for them and business quality wireless isn't either. If the backhaul was sorted there are a number of customers that would use the MAN

(I don't mind you mistaking Kiltimagh for another place.) My point is: A lot of money is spent on each of the MANs. In the smaller places like Kiltimagh in Mayo, and many of the smaller places which are planned, I can't see a proper cost-benefit equation being established by the DCMNR.
Take Kiltimagh: There is one company, as far as I know, CMS peripherals, which employs some 23 people, that could one day eventually benefit from the MAN. I don't think they use it or really need it. And even if they did: What's the fibre cable doing meandering through the town in figures of eight? What was it meant to do? I believe Mayo's County Councillors who applied for this MAN, and the DCMNR and the professional planners of the MAN don't have a clue what they are doing. They have got the money and they lay the fibre. Fullstop. And please do not ask questions what this is all about, when we've told you our answer already a hundred times: the MANs are about bringing broadband to the people of Ireland (and not so long ago we'd have added: so that Ireland can be the first country in Europe to have widespread 5 Mb/s broadband...)

Sponge, you are in favour of the MANs (And I can see your point, to a point, with bigger towns with enough businesses and telcos to backhaul-connect in alternative ways to Eircom). Can you give me an answer to that question: What can the fibre loops meandering through small towns like Kiltimagh do for the people of Kiltimagh? (Even if the backhaul situation is put in place).
I've asked County Councillors, I have asked DCMNR guys, I've talked to E-Net guys, I have talked to people in the know about Metropolitan Area Networks in other countries. They could not give an answer. If you, SpongeBob, cannot suggest practical ways how these fibre loops in smaller towns can be put to use, then I believe that this is a waste of money, time and effort and should be reconsidered.

P.

[Sponge Bob]

Dr Phil is parroting the eircom party line in the Times today.

At this gig he said

1. Same as Honest Dave , Eircom provides BB in 118 of the 120 towns already

(The Clifden, Furbo and Carndonagh exchanges are not DSL enabled so thats a lie anyway, I stopped counting after that)

2. It is doomed to failure

(Its making a difference already )

3. It will make no difference

(we won't let it near our exchanges so nyah boo to LLU )

4. and why cant we be like Germany or NZ who are not enthusiastic about LLU)

(Germany has more or less universal DSL in all exchanges and no distance problems)

5. Our only crime is that we started our rollout after all the rest of the developed world

(we are still doing our damndest to protect dial up revenue at all costs)

6. There is no link between economic development and BB availability

(the fairy was not visible at that point in the speech , it was hiding in Phils bouffant hairdo )

7. DSL and Wireless together may be the answer to the states BB needs.

(we will still squat as much spectrum as possible because Comreg will let is and we will try to bilk the exchequer for as much $£$£ as possible before we actually comply with our licence )

Do I detect a smidge of Fear Phil ??

[viking]

Full Article:

State broadband plan will have no impact - Eircom
Barry O'Halloran

Eircom boss Philip Nolan said yesterday the Government's plan to spend €170 million on broadband networks would make no difference to the numbers of people taking the service.

The EU this week approved the plan which will see the State spending €170 million on developing broadband networks in 120 towns around the Republic. These will be known as metropolitan area networks (MANs).
ADVERTISEMENT

The Government had to get backing for the plan as otherwise it could be an illegal state aid under EU law.

Addressing a Leinster Society of Chartered Accountants lunch in Dublin, Mr Nolan said that the EU has approved the plan on the basis that state investment in broadband was appropriate to deliver it in areas that would otherwise miss out.

"We would just like to point out that of the 120 towns, we provide it in 118," he said.

There is ongoing concern about broadband penetration and take-up, which is seen as vital to the State's economic development.

Mr Nolan conceded that the Republic was behind the EU, but said that this was because we began rolling out the high-speed internet and telecommunications network after many other states.

He called for a radical shake-up in the approach to developing the infrastructure for the new technology.

Mr Nolan said that in common with the rest of Europe, the State had adopted an approach that involved getting the incumbent - in this case Eircom - to open up the link between its exchanges and customers' homes and businesses to competition.

This connection is known as the "local loop" or the "last mile". He told the gathering that in the US and New Zealand, regulators had taken the approach of not forcing incumbent players to do this, on condition that they reinvested in their networks with the aim of developing broadband.

He said that EU countries were now looking at this approach. "It's interesting that Germany has already broken ranks on this," he said.

Mr Nolan also argued that the type of broadband was also relevant. He said that there was a big difference between a combined development of digital subscriber lines (DSL) and wireless broadband to cover most of the State, which was feasible, and a €4 billion investment in new fibre-optic lines to cover the country.

He also rejected that the link between economic development and broadband roll-out was as strong as many argued, and said that businesses already had good access to broadband.

© The Irish Times

[Sponge Bob]

But his biggest shareholder will give him more share options

[jman]

If this Government was serious about "encouraging" broadband roll out they would force a line rental charge reduction for all residential lines that are not DSL enabled (but DSL capable). This would soon encourage Eircom to "upgrade" their network.

When was the last time time you booked/rented a car, but were given a moped, told you had to share it with the guy next to you and were charged full rental rates.

People who cannot get broadband (within the limits), because their lines are split or otherwise messed up should not be paying full whack. It would not be allowed in any other industry.

I am sure that there are tons of suggestions as to how to spend 170m to bring
broadband to all. Maybe MANs are the way, maybe not, maybe the money would be better spend on better FWA coverage, masts etc, maybe a mix of both ... whatever.

I'd hope though that an injection of 170m would encourage more competition and realistic, price competitive alternatives for customers. Right now we're being taken for a ride ...

When enquiring about DSL this week, I was told by an Eircom rep, "Eircom can do nothing for you, have you tried Irish Broadband ?" ...... And this is in one of the so called areas (Furbo) that Dr Phil claims they have coverage.

[watty]

There is a company with FWA national licence and it is a secret product not sold to hardly anyone, and when it is, it is at a shocking price.

We don't need then MANs we have much less any more.

[bminish]

Originally Posted by watty

There is a company with FWA national licence and it is a secret product not sold to hardly anyone, and when it is, it is at a shocking price.

Last time I heard anything about it, it was 512 Kbs down 64 Kbs Up at 45 euro per month (this is ex vat I believe)
Installation was 605 Euro Plus vat
on some sites they are using an Omidirectinal antenna and have a usable range of about 5Km

I did hear that the incumbent is conducting secret trials of pre-wimax kit on 3.5 Ghz, My mole though somewhere near letterkenny was one trial area

.brendan

[watty]

They could charge 10Euro and make a good profit. Mostly if you have a phone line they won't install it.

I can't imagine anyone on Dialup that wouldn't be delighted to get this, but I believe it is hard to get.

[bminish]

Originally Posted by watty

... but I believe it is hard to get.

Oh, yes it's hard to get and extraordinarily limited in range due to very poor RF engineering at the base station end.
You would almost get the idea that this product was only to keep comreg happy .. but of course that would be a daft notion on my part

.brendan

[eircomtribunal]

Originally Posted by bminish

You would almost get the idea that this product was only to keep comreg happy .. but of course that would be a daft notion on my part

and surely not be accepted by the regulator for any length of time..
P.