[Karsini]

Originally Posted by Ulsterman 1690

Then there was those six channel buttons which couldnt be switched between VHF and UHF without once again getting an engineer out

I remember this on some old Bush sets, there was something like a jumper on the tuner for each button that had to be changed to switch it between VHF and UHF. So it meant removing the back cover, haha!

[pg17]

Originally Posted by rlogue

I'd like to learn a bit more about the early colour transmissions by RTÉ. RTÉ did start broadcasting some colour films or overseas relays in colour as early as 1968.

However I'm curious to know if any other colour tests were broadcast by RTÉ - the only test I personally remember was the occasional broadcast of a Bord Fáilte colour film 'Ireland of the Welcomes' during trade tests. This would have been about 1972/73.

I believe the first colour transmission by RTÉ was the relay of the Wimbledon Men's Finals (June 1968 ?) when the technician 'forgot' to switch off the colour relayed from the BBC (?).

[Milktrolley]

Originally Posted by Ulsterman 1690

It was amazing that people were willing to pay for colour TV sets (and licences) when very few programmes seem to have been broadcast in colour

I wasn't alive then so I'm say this with a bit of guesswork, but presumably people would have been thinking ahead, realising that with more and more colour programmes coming along that it would be a worthwhile investment. Similiarly, anyone who knows about HD and what it is, may very well buy a HD TV, with the hope that over the ten years or so that the television will serve them, that a growing number of HD programmes will become available.

Sorry about the phrasing there, it is late after all

[Antenna]

Originally Posted by pg17

I believe the first colour transmission by RTÉ was the relay of the Wimbledon Men's Finals (June 1968 ?) when the technician 'forgot' to switch off the colour relayed from the BBC (?).

interesting, I wonder was Ceefax 'inadvertently' transmitted by RTE during relays of BBC programmes long ago (prior to their own teletext being introduced)

[rlogue]

Yes it was, I remember Top of the Pops being broadcast on RTE 2 in 1979 with BBC teletext. Sadly we did not have a teletext TV at the time to decode it!

[watty]

Originally Posted by Milktrolley

I wasn't alive then so I'm say this with a bit of guesswork, but presumably people would have been thinking ahead, realising that with more and more colour programmes coming along that it would be a worthwhile investment. Similiarly, anyone who knows about HD and what it is, may very well buy a HD TV, with the hope that over the ten years or so that the television will serve them, that a growing number of HD programmes will become available.

Sorry about the phrasing there, it is late after all

At least a 1970 Colour TV did really do colour. The HD launch is europe is a minefield with so many unsuitable TVs qualifying for the "HD ready" logo and so little good labelling of sets.

It isn 't as much a change either. Moving from 21" 405Line B&W to 21" 625 line Colour you get a huge improvement.

Moving from 26" 4:3 TV to 28" WS HDReady (at ANY native resolution) can even be a slight downgrade in quality for some sets.


HDTV was developed for large screens (> 37", esp 48" to 60")) where in an ordinary room the Standard PAL looks fuzzy. The USA has had traditionally 30% less resolution and larger screens (>32" common 10 years ago) so needed HDTV more than Europe.

If the HDTV signal is resampled to make it fit the lower number of lines / pixels on 80% of so called "HD Ready" sets and the set is not large, then the advantages are nearly all lost.

Many non-HD LCD give poorer colour than a 1970 TV! Even the HD sets, many LCD & Plasma can't reproduce the nauances of light pastel shades and dark coloured shadow areas as well as an old TV. This slight "posterisation" actually artifically very often makes a picture look "crisper" and "sharper" but it is unnatural and not a faithfull rendition.

Really I'd wait more before buying an HDTV, or make sure is bigger than 36" and truely has native 1920x1080i pixels. Unlike Colour there is not even a real BBC service! There is only ONE UK main HD channel (BBC HD) and that only has about 1/4 day real output and is a trial service till April 2007.

Artsworld, Nat Geo, Discovery are niche channels.
History channel doesn't exactly need HD.
Sky HD is mostly upscaled SD and Sky1 has less than 2% of viewers!

Then there are the Premium Sport & Movie HD channels. Those by no means are fully HD.

[Ulsterman 1690]

Watty some valid points but

there is not even a real BBC service! There is only ONE UK main HD channel (BBC HD) and that only has about 1/4 day real output and is a trial service till April 2007

Yes but going back to your 405/625 analogy how many hours of programming were on BBC2 in its early days ?

Six hours perhaps

So in those days we only had one BBC channel broadcasting on 625 with 1/4 day real output

Plus ca change...............!

[watty]

Good point Ulsterman!

And how much output had RTE2 in 1983?

YEs I remember the TRIAL service of BBC2 which we had in B&W on a dual standard rental set for maybe at least a year BEFORE BBC2 started test transmission. I knew no-one with colour though untill well after BBC was established and UTV & BBC1 on UHF colour too. Strangely soap powder ads were still B&W.

[Scottish paddy]

I remember being in Enniskillen years ago and the electrical shops had their colour sets tuned to RTÉ and the B/W sets to BBC or UTV.

[Ulsterman 1690]

Colour TV (and BBC2) was late coming to that part of the world because of a terrorist attack on Brougher Mountain in which a number of BBC engineers were murdered.

I knew no-one with colour though untill well after BBC was established and UTV & BBC1 on UHF colour too.

BBC2 started regular service in 1964 but colour programmes didnt start until 1967 and didnt come to BBC1 and ITV until 1969 (although there were experimental tests dating back to the late fifties)

Also in the late sixties colour sets were cumbersome, unreliable and VERY expensive although they had improved somewhat by the early seventies

[watty]

The earliest elctronic TV design with CRT for camera and display was proposed in 1905. Working prototypes in USA and UK and Europe about the time Baird was promoting his "victorian" mechanical TV in 1930s (first proposed and demonstrated around 1895). Colour was tested also in mid 1930s.

The war delayed much. NTSC color was finalised in 1951. Telefunken & BBC deleveoped PAL Colour as a very simple variation of the NTSC system to avoid colour hue shift due to reflections of all our european hilly bits (Lots of USA is either cabled or Flat). The small change resulted in errors of signal simply reducing the amount of colour instead of changing hue, which us humans are much less sensitive to.

I'm not sure but I think we did not have ANY BBC2 till 1967 (DIVIS). Though I think we might have had the Dual standard B&W TV a year or so before. It was about 1970 we got colour. 1971 I entered a project at the Aer Lingus Young Scientist show "Digital TV via laser"
One of the Judges was from RTE and said it was very imaginative and interesting but that it was unlikly we would ever have Digital TV or communication of it by laser.*

I think you will find that even that year or the next both Digital TV and communication by laser over fibre was demonstrated. I got "Highly Commended". Some project on Dragonflys won. There was an ejit prosing lighting by RF without Wires. He had glowing florescent tubes (no wires) and a high power Short wave transmitter, I didn't think much of it. No-one stayed near his stand. A more interesting stand was a Dublin girl with Mathmatics of Moire fringing, maybe to do with measuring.

*Obviously folk like him having been running various Governememt and semistate ever since.

[Ulsterman 1690]

unlikly we would ever have Digital TV or communication of it by laser

Ummmm DVD's ??????

There was an ejit prosing lighting by RF without Wires.

Somewhat reminiciant of the insane genius of Nikola Tesla

He had glowing florescent tubes (no wires) and a high power Short wave transmitter,

Did he have a licence for it ?

No-one stayed near his stand

maybe they were freaked out by the idea of all that RF

[lawhec]

As Ulsterman says UHF & Colour from Brougher was late due to the murder of 4 BBC Engineers in 1971 near the site. Wasn't born at the time, but reading about it colour officially started there in September 1978, while 405 lines from Truskmore was switched off in October. Must have been some time for people to keep up! The opening of Strabane the year before I would assume would have taken some of this pressure off, along with areas that could get a reasonable signal from Divis.

The back of my mind says that colour from Divis started in 1970, Limavady in 1975.

[Digifriendly]

Can anyone definitely tell me when BBC2 came to the North - was it when BBC2 began broadcasting in 1964 or later? I do remember seeing BBC2 in colour at a relation's house in Belfast in either 1967 or 1968.

[Digifriendly]

This link may give me the answer to above question http://tx.mb21.co.uk/info/625/index.asp