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09-12-2005, 02:31   #1
Bluehair
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Lecturing in 3rd Level

Was just wondering could someone post their experiences as in lecturing at 3rd Level?

I'm considering going down this road and would appreciate some 'from the horses mouth' guidelines on the lifestyle/career progression/salary expectations early on and later in career etc. Thanks.
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09-12-2005, 09:15   #2
Tom Dunne
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I can only speak for the Institutes of Technology.

On paper, you need an honours degree plus three years post-grad experience. In reality, I think an MSc is essential. All the lecturers in my department have a masters.

If you are considering becoming a lecturer, try getting some part-time experience. I used to work shift, so on my days off, I managed to get some hours in an Institute of Technology. Keep an eye out in the papers around August/September - they are always looking for part-time staff. I was also fortuntate enough to be working as a technical trainer in an American multi-national, so that stood to me also.

I accept no job is perfect, but this is one job that is damn near it. You have to deliver a total of 18 hours per week in the classroom. Allow another 10-15 for preperation/correcting and you still have a very short week. You work approx. 35 weeks of the year, so from a lifestyle perspective, you really can't beat it. In the Institute I am in, you also have to deliver night courses, but for every hour after 6:00pm, it is counted as 1.5 hours, so you end up working less.

Salary starts off around 36,500 and there is an 11 point scale. After each year of service, you go up one step on the scale.

Any more questions, let me know.
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09-12-2005, 11:14   #3
WizZard
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Is an honours degree essential?

What about degree -> industry experience -> taught Masters? (IT related)
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09-12-2005, 14:02   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WizZard
Is an honours degree essential?
That's what it says on Dept. of education blurb.

Private colleges may differ in what they look for,
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09-12-2005, 16:26   #5
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Bah.
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10-12-2005, 09:57   #6
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I'd love to be a lecturer too..
Quote:
three years post-grad experience
Well I know that's not the case for the largest IT in Ireland (DIT), some of my lecturers went Degree->Masters->PHd->Lecturer and have no industry experience. A lot of people in the Masters course do part time lecturing and lab assistant work. The pay is very good too, pay scales for DIT are here http://www.dit.ie/DIT/hr/Salary_Scal...4ScalesWeb.htm
Starting on 42,393 rising to 66,163 for Lecturer 1, with the max being 94,879 for Lecturer 3, does anyone know how long you have to be a lecturer to go from point to point on the scale?

Last edited by Repli; 10-12-2005 at 09:59.
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10-12-2005, 11:04   #7
Tom Dunne
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In my experience, part-time lecturers can get away without having the full three years post-grad experience (or honours degree for that matter).

It's kinda' like "well you are not a real member of staff, so the rules don't really apply to you".

And Repli - the pay scales are the same for all Institutes of Technology. What may not be clear to you is that you go in as assistant lecturer level, then progress to lecturer level. So while it says pay scales for a lecturer start at 42,000, you won't walk in off the street at that level unless you have substantial experience or, as you mention, a PhD.

You go from point to point on the scale every year subject to various other criteria such as length of service, qualifications, etc. AFAIR, there are 11 points on the assistant lecturer scale, so it could potentially take 11 years to get to lecturer level.
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11-12-2005, 14:20   #8
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I've lectured across the private college / I.T. / university sector while completing my PhD.

Regarding experience and education;

If you have a Masters - then (according to my knowledge of the Bologna process) you are regarded as qualified above the BA level; even if you haven't got a BA.

Private colleges will be more flexible regarding education; especially if you have 'real-life' experience. Most private colleges in Dublin (excluding the language schools) concentrate on business and IT. Would be hard enough to find work outside of that.

Both ITs and Universities have broadly the same standards. Extremely difficult at the moment to get a full-time job without a PhD. Obviously this depends on your other relevant experience and the area you are applying to lecture in; but i would say it is a near universal rule.

For part-time work it is usually sufficient to have a Masters and good work experience. Or to have a Masters and be writing your PhD. It would be very rare to get even part-time work in an IT or uni simply with an undergrad degree. There is way too much competition from better qualified people.
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11-12-2005, 16:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundtower2
Both ITs and Universities have broadly the same standards. Extremely difficult at the moment to get a full-time job without a PhD. Obviously this depends on your other relevant experience and the area you are applying to lecture in
I thought all University jobs require you to either have, or be studying for, a PhD?
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11-12-2005, 16:56   #10
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From the application forms i've been reading, it doesn't say that directly. Although it is possibly the case. Thought they generally require you to "be pursuing some form of relevant postgraduate studies".

Although, obviously, in actuality they require a PhD. Seems to be hard these days to get a lecturing position even with a near-completed PhD.
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11-12-2005, 17:01   #11
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Tom - two quick questions for you given your work experience:

1) How does progression along the scale (e.g. for an assistant lecturer starting at the lowest point scale) actually happen? Is it standard progression for everyone or is it based on performance? If it is by performance, how is this assessed (e.g. student evaluation forms / publishing record / annual evaluation meetings by the Head of Department etc)?

2) At what level on the assistant lecturer scale would an applicant with a PhD and a few publications expect to start at? Surely it wouldn't be at the absolute lowest level, would it?

Thx
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11-12-2005, 18:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundtower2
1) How does progression along the scale (e.g. for an assistant lecturer starting at the lowest point scale) actually happen? Is it standard progression for everyone or is it based on performance?
It's standard progression, i.e. you automatically progress regardless of performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundtower2
2) At what level on the assistant lecturer scale would an applicant with a PhD and a few publications expect to start at? Surely it wouldn't be at the absolute lowest level, would it?
No, most certainly not. I can't find my contract at the moment, but I do recall some blurb about PhD holders going in at a higher level, something about not spending more than 3 years at assistant lecturer level, irrespective of the point on the scale. Have a dig around the Department of Education website, I know it's in there somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out in the meantime.
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29-12-2005, 23:16   #13
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the best job!

I have worked in the IT sector for the last 10 years and it is the best job. I would say that a PhD is necessary for pretty much anything in science and engineering, although possibly a masters with excellent work experience may get you into engineering.

when I started at the IT the position on the salary scale was largely dictated by the salary that you were earning in your previous job, not sure what it is now.

It is likely that anyone who gets a job in the IT's now will be employed at the AL grade (salary scales also on www.tui.ie) and has 18 contact hours with students a week, if employed at the Lecturer grade (v.difficult now) you have 16 contact hours a week. But it is tough in the first year or so if you have to prepare that many lectures, much more than a 40 hour week! in my first years there were many 11 and 12pm working days, but once you get into the swing of things it gets a lot easier.

one thing that hasnt been mentioned is the autonomy, in most cases your 'boss' isnt looking over your shoulder, as long as you are doing the hours and the students are happy, then the heads of departments dont tend to look over your shoulder much.

but basically most of us are in the job for the holidays, about 16-17 weeks a year.

go for it if you can
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29-12-2005, 23:32   #14
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Quick query here (and probably a thicko one at that) but I notice in the salarys offered for, say, a lecturer in Politics offer two scales (above bar/below bar).

The difference is quite significant, could someone explain what this is? Cheers.
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30-12-2005, 18:44   #15
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jebus there's a lot of money in this lecturing lark. you'd think they'd be able to teach properly (i'm in MOD EDIT..)


MOD: Please dont paste a whole departments lecturing staff as not being able to teach properly.

Last edited by Trotter; 30-12-2005 at 21:15.
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