Lol yes Bri i did read your post. My reply was to you and Makaveli, and to the general argument hence I didn't quote you. I take both of your points that yes he had some crap thug songs and I agree. Makaveli they remember him for being a thug but also a lot more due to his social conscience songs. He's not 50 cent. 50 has nothing else bar a thug image. He was a contradiction sure but thats part of what made him interesting. I agree that the thug image probably did help his sales but his talent was more of a factor. I don't think thats open to debate really.
That said being the best rapper has nothing to do with image. His lyrical talent is without a doubt the best imo. His flow and style probably didn't match his lyrics but they were obviously up there with the best of them. Thats why I mentioned him as possibly being the best. This thread isn't an argument about why tupac sells records.
Btw Makaveli I don't think thats speculation. I based that on years of hearing fans, other rappers and people in the industry saying it. His name is usually mentioned. So is KRS, Biggie and Rakim but tbh I think Tupac is mentioned more.
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| 15-10-2004, 16:52 | #47 | |
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 I call him my idol because of his songs not because of what he did. He had a good talent and i wished i had something like that, but i never would have wanted to be famous. 
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| 15-10-2004, 17:26 | #50 | |
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| 15-10-2004, 17:30 | #51 | |
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| 15-10-2004, 19:56 | #54 | |
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Tupac
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you couldnt compare any biggie song to Tupacs song Unconditional Love |
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| 15-10-2004, 20:03 | #55 | |
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| 15-10-2004, 21:07 | #57 | |
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Yeah must be mad tough being a young black male in todays society. Holla dawg. |
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| 15-10-2004, 21:45 | #60 |
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A HUGE number of points to be made
Firstly,I realise the points Makaveli is trying to make,that Tupac is a much overrated sham icon,but it is nevertheless ironic he takes his username from Pacs other name  Sorry,I know the points yer making,but it had to be pointed out at some stage  Ill put it down to late teen thug life fascination at your time of registration Secondly,I half understand what Hooky understands about identifying with rap. I ID with alot of rap. Take for example,the album Doggystyle. Half of it is about a young man getting drunk,getting high and getting laid. Its every young mans ****ing dream. The rappers live alot like the Irish like to,what with the hard drinking,the smoke,and their increasing love of taking yokes since the late 90s They are generally irresponsible good time people,like myselfAs for best rapper,Tupac would struggle to make my top 5. ITS BIGGIE SMALLS FOR **** SAKE YOU NOBENDS!!!!! Look,Tupac wasnt bad. All Eyez on Me would have been a classic if it hadnt been made a 2 discer. But much of it was filler. There are about a dozen solid songs over the 2 CDs(Americas Most Wanted and Cant C Me are ****in legend,among others)-they shoulda stuck them on one CD and got on with it. 7 Day Theory was good too, but as for the rest of the post death albums,I have this feeling that seeing as the songs werent good enough to make it onto imperfect albums made when he was alive,much of it is sh1t by default. Seriously,i pray for the day when the average knob on the street realises that nobody had lyricism,wit and vocals like Biggie(well,Eminem maybe outdid him on the wit slightly,but still). I measure a persons knowledge of rap by asking who is their fave rapper,and then asking what they thought of Biggie. If they say Pac was their fave but Biggie was their favourite,i can respect that. But if they say Biggie was ****e,i assume the truth,that theyve never heard Biggie bar on ****e songs like Hyponotise and Mo Money(tho his lyrics werent terrible,i dont like that song much). Ida thought Biggies prescence and deadly verse on the comercially played Milkshake remix mighta boosted his standing. But seriously,Tupac had too many demensions. One song,he is a bad crack dealer shooting "niggaz" dead for the **** of it basically. The next,its all about black power,black pride,loving his brothers and sisters. So wait,in one song he can destroy his community selling crack,and in the next he laments the breakdown in his own society caused by crimes and family problems related to crack addiction? Arse biscuits. He only bleedin sold drugs for 2 weeks of his life,if at all. Christ,half this country have at some stage brought a bit of skunk back from England,or tried selling a few yokes at dance events,but it doesnt make you Pablo Escobar. But Big wasnt like this. He was a bad mother****er, and he wasnt apologising for it or tryna make up for it. Apart from his daughter, his fans and his friends,it was a case of **** the world,he isnt pretending to be a half criminal half civil rights leader-hes a bad man,nothin more nothin less. If skangers really want to idolise the thug rapper,surely it should be the one who wasnt trying to balance his crime lyrics with some often misguided profoundness Apart from all this,Biggie was just a legendary lyricist. The best rappers are the ones you know read alot of books-Nas,Biggie,probably Eminem. Sorry,but Pac didnt have the vocabulary Biggie did-it would probably be fair to say he wasnt as intelligent. But Biggie,the dude read alot,you can tell because of the big words he used. Tupac seemed confined to "alizee.....weeeeed....penintentareeeyyy......we riiiiidddeeee........" as well as over use of the word nigga. The great thing about Ready to Die was it was almost like a life story. It begins with his birth,moves to his imprisonment,his time(real or imagined)as a street robber in Gimme the Loot,rising rap star with women chasing him because of this by tracks 7/8,and by track 10 he has made it. Juicy is,in my opinion,a song that has more of an effect on me than any of Pacs emotional songs. Why? Because Biggie was told by his teachers and his mother that he was gonna make nothing of his life. By this stage he is on top. The women from his old hood who dissed him are now chasing him,and hes in the position to be able to tell them to **** off,theres better looking women after him. Biggie knew he was an ugly dude,and alot of humourous lyics came from this. The second half of the album almost seems to be a different view,examining how he could have had much the same life if he stuck to the crack game and made millions from it. I think Suicidal Thoughts was the ending for both stories Or maybe im just up too late By the way Makaveli,who IS your favourite? Despite numerous posts in this thread yiv failed to anwser ...... Last edited by Tha Gopher; 16-10-2004 at 01:33. |
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