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[Article] Gay parents might never be accepted here, says minister

  • 15-05-2004 1:49pm
    #1
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    From the Irish Independent on 14/4/2004:

    IRELAND is not ready and "may never be ready" for gay couples with children in a family unit, according to Family Affairs Minister Mary Coughlan.

    She added that "contrary to what people think", marriage was still very important and a family based on marriage was very important.

    The minister made the comments after addressing an EU presidency event organised by her department yesterday, in which she said family policy was an area over which member states wished to retain sovereignty.

    She later told reporters that family policy could be very controversial, particularly the different legal definitions of a family.

    "Our definition in the constitution is totally different to the German definition of a family. All of these ideas, the issue of marriage, the issue of all types of values and morals . . . it's not the road to go down in my personal view," she said, referring to the European context of family futurepolicy.

    Asked if two gay men with children could be a viable family unit, she replied: "We're not ready for that.

    "My personal view is that this country is not ready for that and may never, ever, ever be ready for it."

    However, the minister said it would be wrong for anyone to be presumptuous about what a family is. "If you talk about a home for example, that might be a better definition and then there is all sorts of relationships in life but at at the end of the day . . . if the child is supported that is very important."

    Yesterday's conference at Dublin Castle - Families, Change and European Social Policy - was addressed by experts who dealt with issues such as the pensions' timebomb facing rapidly ageing populations.

    Outlining future trends and changing patterns of family life, Mary Daly of Queen's University said that Ireland was expected to record the largest increase in one-person households in the coming years among EU states.

    Professor Daly also highlighted a fall in fertility rates across Europe, although Ireland continues to have the highest fertility rate, well in excess of the next highest country, France.

    In future, policymakers could expect to no longer take the existence of the family for granted.

    "To risk some exaggeration, it seems that the younger generations and upper classes of Europe are prepared to wave goodbye to family life with children," she said.

    "The task of reproduction is left increasingly to the lower income groups and to immigrants."

    She also referred to recent research here which suggested that women are finding it increasingly difficult to combine the two worlds of being a mother and a labour market worker.

    "The evidence indicates that women continue to be responsible for work in the home and that the average women does between two and three times the amount of unpaid work carried out by men."

    Hubert Krieger, from the Dublin-based European Foundation, presented new research which found that nearly 85pc of Europeans are satisfied with family life.

    But Dr Krieger added that the burdens of work were causing more than 20pc of Europeans to come home too tired to work in the household.
    Hmm... so we'll never be ready? Not exactly encouraging words but then it's a hard thing to predict social change. What we'd need to see our opinions on the issue from the under 30s who will, naturally, dictate future policy.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MarcusGarvey


    This woman has the power to push for change and acceptance. She can enact policies and procedures and dictate future directions of social policy. The fact that she has somewhat of a defeatist attitude in relation to this is wrong and dangerous. Her attitude will only encourage discrimination.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭The Real B-man


    Touchy subject, although two male/female parents i have no problems with its when junior reaches 4or5 and asks why dont i have a mammy/daddy. they might feel left out from all the other kids and when secondary school comes along it whould torcher for the child bullying etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭monkeymagic


    I love it when apart from being basically incompetent the government give you one more reason not to vote for them.

    As for whether or not a 4 or 5 year old would be concerned about having 2 male or female parents I'd be pretty certain they'd be glad to have 2 parents and not just one compared to presumably a number of their classmates. Besides any decent parent would prepare their child for the obvious questions they'd be asked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 318 ✭✭qwertyphobia


    When she first announced the law to block the equality authority ruling on social welfare benfits for same sex partners I had just put it down to the same agenda of the dirty dozen welfare cuts.

    But this goes way further, this is a minister acting out of blind hatered and homophobia. Her choice of words is particularly telling

    "this country is not ready for that and may never, ever, ever be ready for it."

    How dare she pontificate to the world about what she thinks Ireland is capable of being, it would be one thing if she was using this lanaguage at some party fund raiser to rouse her suportors but this was at a fourm where she was officialy reperesting the state to the rest of the EU.


    She further states

    "The task of reproduction is left increasingly to the lower income groups and to immigrants."

    My god what is this women on about?? that almost sounds like some doggy eugenics type argument


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭dictatorcat


    never, ever, ever be ready for it

    Wow that's pretty definate!
    Sounds like something from Peter pan, neverevereverland, where people never grow up and are ruled by pirates and thieves:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    I am very much looking forward to leaving Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats off my ballot paper entirely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 mekere


    what an ignorant and blinkered woman !!!

    This type of crap makes me want to emigrate to NZ....

    I'm a parent, i'm gay, and I'm a dam good one by all accounts as my 8 year old is a very well rounded individual. No one told me 8 years ago that in this country i would never ever ever be ready to be a parent!!!!!!!

    That woman quite obviously lives in a sealed box and hasn't met a single gay person ever, or was told scary stories as a child about those creepy gay folk, rather like trolls, that has left her so emotionally scared that she can speak for the whole country in discriminating against a minority she very very obviously knows not one person in it.

    I'm so angry with this type of rubbish from our abhorrantly brutal government, why were these people elected????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    I know I might be cutting it rather blunt here, so sorry if I offend any of our beloved gay posters. Nothing meant by it, you know...

    But, while I certainly don't agree with that statement, I do beleive that Ireland, as it stands isn't quite ready for that kind of thing just yet. As we'd all agree, it's one thing for the more educated and socially versed among us to be accepting of same sex families, and in our adulthood be perfectly understanding of the situation.

    However, Ireland has many elements that aren't exactly the most gay friendly. And as someone has already mentioned, the issue of bullying for a child in school is a very big one. When I was a lad, I practically had the **** kicked out of me on a regular basis simply because I wore glasses, and had them knocked from my face many times, and even had them broken on two occasions by methods of a head-butt, and football to the face.

    Suffice to say, there was absolutely nothing done whatsoever about this, and any complaints my parents made to the principle or teachers were usually brushed off with comments like 'There can't be smoke without fire' and the principle once claimed that "There was no bullying at our school untill you came along."

    Of course, once I reached secondary school, all this pretty much stopped bar the occaisional scrap, at which time I was considerably tougher, and could easily hold my own.

    With the backwards view on bullying in general, especially in Ireland, I don't know how a young child would be able to cope in a same-sex family situation. If my glasses were constantly being hit off my face, then what would similarly aged kids do when they found out that one kid had two daddies?

    It's a very big issue, and I know any parents wouldn't want their children to go through that. So for these reasons, I don't think that Ireland is exactly ready for same sex families.


  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Manchegan


    Karl,

    while not in any way doubting the validity of your experience, I would say that the conclusion you draw from it in this instance smacks of appeasement.

    Children, no more or less than adults, can be cruel and merciless, and are indiscriminate in their choice of the defect they attack, be it appearance, orientation or family circumstances.

    I would suggest that a gay guardian would generally be in a better position to instill the self-respect and self-confidence necessary for a child to withstand such onslaughts, having had inevitably to assert their own identity in a hostile environment.

    The Minister for Family Affairs' opinion is that "this country is not ready for that and may never, ever, ever be ready for it". Being dragged kicking and screaming into decriminalising homosexuality would demonstrate that there are many things that this country is not ready for but must face whether it likes it or not.

    M.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I dont think the real issue here is whether or not Ireland is ready for gay parents, its whether or not its appropriate for a senior government minister to go stirring up prejudices against a minority of Irish citizens. The fact is that there are already gay families here, and whether the minister likes it or not, there will continue to be gay families here for years to come. The minister should be concentrating on legislation to offer better protection to those in a gay family rather than preaching that they will never be acepted here.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 318 ✭✭qwertyphobia


    The minister has brought in legisation which has the sole effect of blocking social welfare benfits which are avaible for oppisite sex partners being avaible to same sex partners.

    That in conjuction with this shows she is working from a position of blind homophobia.

    As for sections of Irish society not being ready to except gay parents that will be the case of many generations but it will change quicker when those views are challenged by couragious families, organisations and state bodies directly confront negative beliefs.




    the fact that she made these coments at after an EU meeting is particularly embarssing


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