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Lissadel House Shut down
Comments
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I am sure the present controversy will do their business no harm when it reopens ( during the peak summer months - there is money there for the picking , showing people around the house + charging well for it ) to buy the amount of free publicity they have got nationally would easily cost hundreds of thousands.
Is the 40,000 figure since they opened or per annum ? Is it visitors to the house, or does it include visitors who may visit the cafe / shop / courtyard area only ?
Either way the 40,000 is a nice little figure. What else is in the area of historic importance for people to visit ? If it was properly managed, and if the contents of the house were all authentic Lissadel, and people were not sometimes discouraged by a barrier, I am confident visitor numbers could be higher. It is in an area of great natural beauty, not far for the main "west coast highway" full of tourists in the summer.
The point I was getting to was...you said that "Judging by the poor visitor numbers.."
Have you got figures to back that up? I doubt it.
Which brings me back to my original point...there is a lot of bluster and opinion flying around when clearly nobody here knows all the facts. No doubt there is propaganda from all sides as they court public sympathy.0 -
lol How are you so certain ? Are you related to the owners ?
Read the article...carefully.
Where did the owners say they would "wash their hands"?
They didnt say it. So the journalist put his own spin on the interview using tabloid speak. Thats sensationalist and self serving on the part of the Indo. Stirring it up.0 -
Sure it was the council that made them public with their recent decsion thats a fact now
No, it is not. Do your homework before posting: the council are trying to confirm whether rights of way exist - that is all.
Ah relax will you. The CC have passed a resolution to amend the status of the routes.
So unless they change their minds it will be changed if they dont then everything can go back to normal and its resolved.0 -
Hi Dumbyear
Re right of way: Matter is very straight forward:
County Co seek to have road put on Co Development Plan:
Notice is sent to owners
If they object they go to Circuit Court..in Ireland this can be appealed by either side to the Supreme Court.
If Co Council feel they wish to create a new right of way owners will have to be compensated.
For anyone interested familiarise yourself with Ireland's planning legislation.
That's the situation in a nut-shell. That's net point.
All the rest is background.0 -
partyguinness wrote: »Read the article...carefully.
Where did the owners say they would "wash their hands"?
They didnt say it. So the journalist put his own spin on the interview using tabloid speak. Thats sensationalist and self serving on the part of the Indo. Stirring it up.
I read the full article in Saturdays paper. "lawyers Eddie Walsh and his wife Constance Cassidy, who bought the 400-acre estate more than five years ago, claim that irrespective of the outcome of legal action they want to wash their hands of the project."
Maye you think its a big conspiracy, between all the people who are at loggerheads with the actions of the new owners : the locals, the councillors, the county council, the newspaper etc0 -
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And were they quoted as saying they wanted to "wash their hands"???
No they were not.
Where did they "claim" this? They didnt.
That is my point.
That phrase was inserted by the journalist. It was sensationalist and typical Indo tripe. All it does is stir matters up and provides a nice cheap little catchphrase for people to throw around and to quote on internet sites:rolleyes:.
Your last post quotes the article not the owners. There is one hell of a difference.0 -
lol. If they did not make the claim in Saturdays paper then no doubt, being barristers, they can take that up with the Irish Independent. The newspaper journalist did not suggest the owners may like to wash their hands of it : he wrote that they claimed that irrespective of the outcome of legal action they want to wash their hands of the project. You have written that they claimed no such thing. Were you at the interview ?
On a lighter note, whats the bets the place will be on the market within the next 5 years ? It must be quite a costly holiday home to maintain, the neighbours ...well, enough said.....and if its not making money ( well if it was why would 11 staff be let go , and would'nt the cafe and shop have been busier ...)...why would they not want to wash their hands of it ? When the paper says " "lawyers Eddie Walsh and his wife Constance Cassidy, who bought the 400-acre estate more than five years ago, claim that irrespective of the outcome of legal action they want to wash their hands of the project.", I believe the paper. I do not always believe papers, but knowing some people in the area ( and having visited the estate many times ) I do believe that article in the paper.
I wish luck to whoever tries to run it in the future, it would not be an easy task.0 -
If the owners said "we want to wash our hands on it..." then it would have been quoted. It wasnt so I think it is reasonable to conclude that it was never said. The pharse came before an actual quote so it was the journalist putting his own spin on a quote for his own purposes.
Yes they said that after the court proceedings they may leave but its not like they are abandoning the place in ruins without having done a tap wth the place over the past 5 years?? That would be washing their hands;)
The have pumped millions of their own money into it and improving the place. I dont think anyone doubts for one second or disagrees.
Yes you believe the paper because it suits you. If it said the opposite you would not be making any reference to it...:p
In light of all the work they have done, they should be given the benefit of the doubt that they have the best interests of the property in mind even if some dont agree at this moment in time:cool:.0 -
partyguinness wrote: »The have pumped millions of their own money into it and improving the place.
The were reported to have bought the place, inc 400 acreas of land in this highly desirable location, during the celtic tiger for only 1,500,000 euro. That would have bought only a nice semi detached house in a nice area in Dublin. At the auction of the contents they let most of the stuff go rather than buying all the contents. That, to me, does not smack of having the " best interests of the estate " at heart. Putting up a crude new barrier to keep people out , where they have travelled unhindered for generations, does not smack of " improving the place".
Obviously he put money in to stock a sizeable shop, and establishing tea rooms / the cafe. Judging by the ( lack of ) numbers there when I visted ( which was in reasonable weather last year ....I can only imagine what its like in bad weather mid-week in January ! ), and the numbers there when friends visited, and from someone who works there, that does not appear to have been a commercial success....so its hardly surprising its closing down. I wish it was, it is a nice setting, and I gave it a turn, so to speak. However, nice as the architectural ambience is, if I owned it I would imagine my accountant or bank manager would want me to wash my hands of it !
You can give the current owners "the benefit of the doubt " if you want, but others do not have to do so eg many locals, councillors, the county council, the newspaper etc. I gave them the benefit of the doubt for a while. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.0 -
The were reported to have bought the place, inc 400 acreas of land in this highly desirable location, during the celtic tiger for only 1,500,000 euro. That would have bought only a nice semi detached house in a nice area in Dublin. At the auction of the contents they let most of the stuff go rather than buying all the contents. That, to me, does not smack of having the " best interests of the estate " at heart. Putting up a crude new barrier to keep people out , where they have travelled unhindered for generations, does not smack of " improving the place".
Obviously he put money in to stock a sizeable shop, and establishing tea rooms / the cafe. Judging by the ( lack of ) numbers there when I visted, and the numbers there when friends visited, and from someone who works there, that does not appear to have been a commercial success....so its hardly surprising its closing down.
You can give them "the benefit of the doubt " if you want, but others do not have to do so eg many locals, councillors, the county council, the newspaper etc
For only €1,500,000.00..so what? That was the asking price and they paid it. That is hardly a stick to beat them with.
Sure thats nothing...do you have that in your back pocket?maybe you should have bought it yourself...:D and what..they havent spent anything on it since..as for the contents..who knows..what contents were there or what state they were in..they obviously decided that some of the contents were not worth keeping or perhaps were not in keeping with the historic tone of the place...
So you have decided not to give them the benefit of the doubt...why is that exactly?
I get the impression that you are delighted that it does not appear to be commercial success..or at least hope the jackeens have failed...your posts reek of begrudgery..the type of begrudgery that keeps the likes of Sligo/Mayo/Roscommon/Donegal down as small back waters...nothing personal.
Christ man...have a good look at yourself and get real.0 -
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shellyriver wrote: »Hi Blackbestie -- thanks for the update from the Indo concerning Eddie Walsh's expressed interest in selling Lissadell -- real shame in the short and long term.
Going back in time I was in favour of State purchasing the house -- but they didn't.
Lissadell gets kicked from both sides, one side says all the original artefacts are gone, the house is a form of shell which embodies only relicts of oppression/landlordism etc.
Others in favour of a more pro-British friendly (revisionist) history say they are not interested in the house because countess markievicz was a 'bloody thirsty murderess'.
But in my humble opinion, these are the extremes of views expressed re Lissadell -- the vast number are just genuinely interested in it as a curious relict of our shared past and a day out, along with any particular interests they may hold.
If Eddie Walsh sells the house -- best of luck to him. But I think its a pity and it's a pity there weren't 10 more couples in North Sligo like he and his wife to promote this area (like them or loathe them they did the job wonderfully).
If, as suggested, the breakup of the estate part of their exit strategy then the gombeens who offered him this, as you and your 'informed'? mate predict(ed), a very lucrative compensation package (if he is the machievellian character some view him) then he must be laughing up his sleeve at the stupidity and blundering of Sligo Co Co, as representatives of their electorate, who offered him this golden opportunity.
However maybe, just maybe, he had a love of the area, the house, ALL the characters associated with that historic home and wanted to undertake the project because he is a wealthy, ambitious and talented human! Maybe that is hard for some to understand who shuffle through this mortal coil, filled with venom and bile. None of us know everything about the place, but its important to be fair and balanced.
Those who are informed, intuitive and reflective just might entertain the prospect that there is another side to the avalanche of infective that people, including this blog, such as Jimmy hold (by the way its nothing personal, Jimmy, I don't know you -- the above is mere crystallised theorising).
But back to the real world, Lissadell is closed. If its for sale -- its a bad time to sell. There are only 400 acres at Lissadell its mostly forestry and foreshore. I suppose some in cyberworld will say he will ride back to Kildare suffering this sheckles in his back pocket, god help them!, as if is is part of a grand master plan.
Now if he sells it lets see if the State, with a second opportunity and bite of the cherry will go for Lissadell -- however, considering the shortage of available cash outlined for current projects outlined in Sligo; allied with inglorious Government killing of Cancer services in Sligo and our local reps inability to a great deal about this life-and-death matter allied with others, I very much doubt it.
There are more important things in life that all this -- 2,000 in Dell have lost their jobs, that's mind-blowing. They can't pick up a canvas and try and sell some art for inflated sums, they live in the real world.
As for local yokels, when the Gore-Booths were threatened with imprisonment by the State in the 1950s for keeping 200 people employed and looking after their non compis mentis brother, locals and local politicans invited members of the Land Commission down to CARVE UP the estate under these elderly ladies' noses! This was when the Gore-Booths had alreay released 28,000 acres of land to tenants -- under the Wyndham Act, Sir Josslyn Gore-Booth, being the first in Ireland to do this reducing the Estate to about 3,000 acres. By the way, the local farmers were only able to buy back this land after a £100,000,000.00 Million buy-out with money provided by the British Exchequer, because tenants didn't have the proverbial pot (with payments staggered over 60 years).
When they got land around the Gore-Booth estate, what do many of these beneficiaries they do apply for planning permission and sell off their sites at vastly inflated prices.
This is the mentality of some of the people you are dealing with -- either etheral and transient or reactionary post-peasantry!
That's about it, I have my say -- looks like Lissadell is closed as far as the Walshs are concerned. I don't believe its bluster or brinksmanship -- he is independently wealthy of Lissadell, best of luck to the new owner, whoever they are. However, next time it might not just be roads that people claim they are entitled to pass that will be closed but the house and general grounds itself. When dust settles and matter goes to court, could go to the Supreme Court, I don't believe the roads will be made public.
But back to the real world -- the locks are up, 11 people have lost their jobs, local businesses are now not going to benefit, Sligo no longer has a promotional and cultural asset and we are made look like a bunch of reactionary fools, cutting off our collective nose to spite our face (for the benefit of a handful of faceless individuals how either had the wherewithal, finance, brains, ability or courage to assert a right of way themselves, in which they could have been assisted (as mentioned earlier) by none other than the Attorney General.
By striking a blow against tyranny, these snivellers sought a new master, the Local Authority, and cowered under the cloak of a tax-payers blundering democrarcy. Edward Said, quoted: 'The oppressed in turn become the WORST oppressor'. What an abuse of such privilege!
Again, take a bow Sligo Co Co.:cool:
Dont think its as complicated as all that. If the Co Co believe there is a public right of way on the land they must enforce it.
If they dont enforce it to keep the owners of Lisadell happy then they are corrupt. It seems the Co Co are the ones who cant win out here!!!!
What are they supposed to do?
And what has having public rights of way through Lisadell got to do with Lisadell being unviable?0 -
partyguinness wrote: »what contents were there or what state they were in..they obviously decided that some of the contents were not worth keeping or perhaps were not in keeping with the historic tone of the place....
You are incorrect there where you write "they obviously decided that some of the contents were not worth keeping or perhaps were not in keeping with the historic tone of the place". Even the pictures of the well publicised auction made it to the main RTE tv news at the time. The contents were very much worth keeping and were in keeping with the historic tone of the place....but there were hundreds of bidders from all over at the auction.
I did at the beginning but not any more. Most locals there are the same, having had a better experience with the previous owners.partyguinness wrote: »So you have decided not to give them the benefit of the doubt...why is that exactly?.partyguinness wrote: »I get the impression that you are delighted that it does not appear to be commercial success.
I will not even reprint the rest of your personal dig ( and bad language ) at me. Suffice to say I do wish it was a commercial success ...read what I wrote ...eg "
I wish it was, it is a nice setting, and I gave it a turn, so to speak. " Maybe it is a commercial success and the man of the house is just letting the workers go for the fun of it / to prove a grudge with the local govt etc. If so, its a pity peoples livlihoods are being used in this manner. Who knows ?0 -
Is commonsense about to break out?
Immediate discussions must be arranged with the owners of Lissadell and the local people to resolve the issues of rights of way through Lissadel estate. Thats the motion agreed at a Sligo County Council meeting today. Lissadel House closed to the public yesterday evening. The management stated it was impossible to operate Lissadel due to a previous motion by the council to amend the County development plan to include in it a provision of rights of way along routes through estate.mmediate discussions must be arranged with the owners of Lissadell and the local people to resolve the issues of rights of way through Lissadel estate. Thats the motion agreed at a Sligo County Council meeting today. Lissadel House closed to the public yesterday evening. The management stated it was impossible to operate Lissadel due to a previous motion by the council to amend the County development plan to include in it a provision of rights of way along routes through estate.
http://www.oceanfm.ie/onair/sligoleitrimnews.php?articleid=0000043290 -
Just think it is worth a read. I, having walked the disputed right of way, concur that visitor and especially children's (visitors and owners) security could not be guaranteed if cars could pass through a route so close to the house, also there is probably no legal speed limit there so in theory a car could drive past within feet of the front door at any speed they wanted...
"January 8th, 2009: on December 1st, 2008, Sligo County Council, without any notice to us, passed a resolution that the Council “amend the current County Development Plan to include in it a provision for the preservation of the public rights of way along routes through the Lissadell Estate” in accordance with section 14 of the Planning and Development Act 2000. These routes include the path running right in front of the doors of the House itself.
We purchased Lissadell in 2003 as private property. As part of the purchasing process Sir Josslyn Gore Booth, the vendor, gave a sworn declaration confirming that no public rights of way existed over the property. Additionally, Sligo County Council stated that the only roads in the charge of the Council were roads outside Lissadell. There was no suggestion by Sligo County Council that the internal roads or paths were subject to any public rights of way.
For a public right of way to exist, it must be expressly dedicated by the owner of the land. That is the law. There is no evidence that any such dedication was ever made over any part of the Lissadell Estate, either when it was a 4,000 acre estate, or when it was reduced to the current 400 acres in the 1970s. Indeed it would defy common sense to dedicate as a public road an internal path right beside the front door of your house.
Sligo County Council have, for their own reasons, now seen fit to raise this issue after five years during which we have poured enormous amounts of time, effort, energy and money into the restoration of the House, Gardens and grounds, and making Lissadell a focal point of tourism in the North West.
This action by Sligo County Council makes it impossible to operate Lissadell either as a historic house or indeed a private home for reasons of public health and safety, insurance and, not least, the simple matter of security both for our family and the thousands of visitors to Lissadell, a large proportion of whom are children and the elderly. No property whatsoever, let alone a large tourist facility, could be operated on the basis of unregulated, uncontrolled and unfettered access.
In undertaking the restoration of Lissadell we have not received any public funding. When we bought Lissadell, the house and grounds were almost derelict. Five years on Lissadell House and Gardens have been restored; we have opened a Constance Markievicz Exhibition and an Art Gallery which showcases Sligo Artists. We have built up visitor numbers from 4,000 to over 40,000 and so created employment at Lissadell and the general Sligo region. We are proud of what we have achieved. It is, however, simply not viable to continue to invest further significant sums where Sligo County Council has seen fit to embark upon such a serious challenge, creating fundamental uncertainty about the future of Lissadell.
Because of this action by Sligo County Council, Lissadell will close with effect from next Monday 12th January, 2009, and will cease operations as a tourism destination.
All existing commitments to our visitors will be met. We will undertake the necessary ongoing maintenance, but we will not embark upon any further projects in Lissadell. For this year, we will work towards achieving a limited summer opening in order to facilitate the commitments already made.
We regret the adverse economic repercussions of this decision, which affect all of us at Lissadell, and which has been forced on us by the actions of Sligo County Council.
Our vision was to transform the estate into a flagship for tourism in Sligo and the North West, and to provide a secure environment for our seven children. We do not wish to exploit Lissadell commercially but to restore the house and gardens to their former glory, and make Lissadell self-sustaining, if possible. We do not want Lissadell to become a golf course, an exclusive hotel, an upmarket housing estate or apartment complex, a holiday village or a caravan park. To this end both of us, and members of our family, have spent every possible spare moment of our time working, inside and outside, in order to make this dream come true. We have received no financial assistance from the State or from any tourism authority. Every single penny that has been spent on the restoration and maintenance of Lissadell has been earned by both of us.
Edward Walsh, Constance Cassidy and Family. "0 -
blackiebest wrote: »Just think it is worth a read. I, having walked the disputed right of way, concur that visitor and especially children's (visitors and owners) security could not be guaranteed if cars could pass through a route so close to the house, also there is probably no legal speed limit there so in theory a car could drive past within feet of the front door at any speed they wanted...
"January 8th, 2009: on December 1st, 2008, Sligo County Council, without any notice to us, passed a resolution that the Council “amend the current County Development Plan to include in it a provision for the preservation of the public rights of way along routes through the Lissadell Estate” in accordance with section 14 of the Planning and Development Act 2000. These routes include the path running right in front of the doors of the House itself.
We purchased Lissadell in 2003 as private property. As part of the purchasing process Sir Josslyn Gore Booth, the vendor, gave a sworn declaration confirming that no public rights of way existed over the property. Additionally, Sligo County Council stated that the only roads in the charge of the Council were roads outside Lissadell. There was no suggestion by Sligo County Council that the internal roads or paths were subject to any public rights of way.
For a public right of way to exist, it must be expressly dedicated by the owner of the land. That is the law. There is no evidence that any such dedication was ever made over any part of the Lissadell Estate, either when it was a 4,000 acre estate, or when it was reduced to the current 400 acres in the 1970s. Indeed it would defy common sense to dedicate as a public road an internal path right beside the front door of your house.
Sligo County Council have, for their own reasons, now seen fit to raise this issue after five years during which we have poured enormous amounts of time, effort, energy and money into the restoration of the House, Gardens and grounds, and making Lissadell a focal point of tourism in the North West.
This action by Sligo County Council makes it impossible to operate Lissadell either as a historic house or indeed a private home for reasons of public health and safety, insurance and, not least, the simple matter of security both for our family and the thousands of visitors to Lissadell, a large proportion of whom are children and the elderly. No property whatsoever, let alone a large tourist facility, could be operated on the basis of unregulated, uncontrolled and unfettered access.
In undertaking the restoration of Lissadell we have not received any public funding. When we bought Lissadell, the house and grounds were almost derelict. Five years on Lissadell House and Gardens have been restored; we have opened a Constance Markievicz Exhibition and an Art Gallery which showcases Sligo Artists. We have built up visitor numbers from 4,000 to over 40,000 and so created employment at Lissadell and the general Sligo region. We are proud of what we have achieved. It is, however, simply not viable to continue to invest further significant sums where Sligo County Council has seen fit to embark upon such a serious challenge, creating fundamental uncertainty about the future of Lissadell.
Because of this action by Sligo County Council, Lissadell will close with effect from next Monday 12th January, 2009, and will cease operations as a tourism destination.
All existing commitments to our visitors will be met. We will undertake the necessary ongoing maintenance, but we will not embark upon any further projects in Lissadell. For this year, we will work towards achieving a limited summer opening in order to facilitate the commitments already made.
We regret the adverse economic repercussions of this decision, which affect all of us at Lissadell, and which has been forced on us by the actions of Sligo County Council.
Our vision was to transform the estate into a flagship for tourism in Sligo and the North West, and to provide a secure environment for our seven children. We do not wish to exploit Lissadell commercially but to restore the house and gardens to their former glory, and make Lissadell self-sustaining, if possible. We do not want Lissadell to become a golf course, an exclusive hotel, an upmarket housing estate or apartment complex, a holiday village or a caravan park. To this end both of us, and members of our family, have spent every possible spare moment of our time working, inside and outside, in order to make this dream come true. We have received no financial assistance from the State or from any tourism authority. Every single penny that has been spent on the restoration and maintenance of Lissadell has been earned by both of us.
Edward Walsh, Constance Cassidy and Family. "
Sir Josslyn Gore Booth, the vendor, gave a sworn declaration confirming that no public rights of way existed over the property
You can't believe a word Sligo landowners say when they sell you property. I know this from experience.0 -
Sir Josslyn Gore Booth, the vendor, gave a sworn declaration confirming that no public rights of way existed over the property
So the current owner says. I would have thought it unusual the vendor would be asked to give "a sworn declaration confirming that no public rights of way existed over the property". Its not what the vendor says that matters ; if a public right of way exists in the mind of members of the public ( as it did ) or of the country council, surely that is what matters ? Before the house changed hands approx 5 years ago, I remember often driving and / or walking on that right of way. Did the buyer really think the 400 acres had no public roads or rights of way going through it ? Would you not think that if the 400 areas had not those sort of complications, the property would have made more than the 1.5 million it did , during the celtic tiger boom, given the price of land, sites and property in that scenic area ?
As regards your statement "You can't believe a word Sligo landowners say when they sell you property.", you are right there. Not just Sligo landowners though - its buyer beware when purchasing any property. If an auctioneer said something about some property they were selling ( eg in the counties around Dublin they may claim its only 45 minutes from Dublin city centre ) would you automatically believe him / her ?0 -
I'm a native Sligonian who knows the Walsh-Cassidys personally and honestly I can say that they are a perfect example of a DACENT family! They took on Lissadell as a labour of love as Ed himself has said countless times not as a money making venture? Constantse and Ed are two of the most respected and highest earning barristers in the Four Courts they don't need the money from lissadell, which has most DEFINITELY raised the amount of visitors from 4000 to 40000 i have personally seen the books. It is atrocious to think that a beautiful young family like the walsh-cassidys are being trashed publicly because they want to protect their young children? Noone would put up with people driving in and out of THEIR property, which they paid for completely unaided by the govt, at all times of the night. <snip> oh and for your information the walshs have taken legal proceedings against Sligo CC and whats more they're going to win because they're right! the only reason that this issue is being brought up because that huge oaf of a counsellor joe leonard thinks he's king of lissadell and he knows that the only way anyone in their right mind would vote for him if he dragged up some stupid issue that a few laggers care about! and i have seen the Cassidys proof of there beng no right of way in lissadell and i can assure you that it will bode well in a court of law!0
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another for the 'what a first post' award!:rolleyes:
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SligoSailor wrote: »I'm a native Sligonian who knows the Walsh-Cassidys personally and honestly I can say that they are a perfect example of a DACENT family! They took on Lissadell as a labour of love as Ed himself has said countless times not as a money making venture? Constantse and Ed are two of the most respected and highest earning barristers in the Four Courts they don't need the money from lissadell, which has most DEFINITELY raised the amount of visitors from 4000 to 40000 i have personally seen the books. It is atrocious to think that a beautiful young family like the walsh-cassidys are being trashed publicly because they want to protect their young children? Noone would put up with people driving in and out of THEIR property, which they paid for completely unaided by the govt, at all times of the night. <snip> oh and for your information the walshs have taken legal proceedings against Sligo CC and whats more they're going to win because they're right! the only reason that this issue is being brought up because that huge oaf of a counsellor joe leonard thinks he's king of lissadell and he knows that the only way anyone in their right mind would vote for him if he dragged up some stupid issue that a few laggers care about! and i have seen the Cassidys proof of there beng no right of way in lissadell and i can assure you that it will bode well in a court of law!
Joe Leonard is a councillor: a counsellor is someone who helps people to explore feelings about their lives so that they can reflect about what is happening to them and consider alternative ways of doing things.
Come to think of it a counsellor would be more useful in this situation. :rolleyes:0 -
Likewise, well done Sligosailor -- i too am native Sligonian -- and abhor the conduct of meddling interferes concerning Lissadell and its operation.
Re Lissadell - RTE web site outlines Walsh/Cassidys have instituted High Court proceedings. Absolute pathetic bleatings from councillors on Monday ran for cover and babbled that they didn't know what they were doing last December (no sh1te Sherlock). Everyone of them, have not the brains or strenght of their convictions. In my opinion, it would appear that Council Executive where thrilled at giving Lissadell a kicking, no comment from County Manager also Mr Breen very concerned re right of ways in county. What leadership!
Then idiotic attempts to start dialogue by way of another motion, to muddy waters and waste everyone's time. Ha Ha. Trying to kick the issue into touch, how obvious and ineffective.
Anyways, here it comes. The real world. Legal proceedings. Buckle up. No messing around with these wafflers who would love to see Lissadell rot and fall to the ground, so they can enjoy their precise short-cuts and late-night drives. Hope Eddie and Constance, et al, wipe floor with Sligo Co Council's ill-founded 'non-case'.
P.S. For all those who apparently or purposely are wilfully blinded by their own prejudice and igornance to the reality of this legal matter, (which has had a significant direct bearing of the lives of all those who live, work and WORKED on the estate) -- other 'greedy fat-cat lawyers' will represent the Co Co and those 40 who signed the petition, but I will predict that truth, by virtue of fact and evidence there will be seen to be 'no right of way' and the efforts of Cllr Leonard, in particular, and his retinue of devotees will be vanquished in this battle.
Wafflers on this point will in time find out reality concerning this issue.
Get your salt 'cos your going to be gobbling humble pie Sligo Co Co. Can't wait.:D0 -
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If they got so much money from the tribunals so, and if they had the interests of Lissadell at heart, why did they not spend more of it on buying most of the antiques / contents of the house when they were auctioned off publically about five years ago ? If they do not "need the money from lissadell", , and really only wish to use it as a glorified holiday home ( maybe with tax breaks if its open a little bit to the public ) , why not allow locals to use the rights of way they have used for generations ?SligoSailor wrote: »Constantse and Ed are two of the most respected and highest earning barristers in the Four Courts they don't need the money from lissadell,0 -
He and his family only use it as a holiday home / come here for holidays. He does not have to literally lock 400 acres to feel secure. He can lock the door of the house, the gate to the courtyard /containing the shop + cafe etc no problem.
He isn't locking up 400 arces, he is allowing access to the beach and many other areas of the estate, he wants to stop pepole walking or driving past his front door at any hour of the day, at any speed. He wants what we all want for our property and children - safety.Why did the previous ownrers not "shut down access in the interests of secuirty" so ?
They didn't invest millions into the property, didn't have 7 children and didn't have 40,000 visitors per year again all he wants is safetyHe was reported to have paid only 1.5 million for 400 acres of land in scenic north Sligo, and the price included Lisadell house + other buildings. Maybe if people did not use the right of way going through the lands the price would have been higher ?
Or maybe they didn't want to invest multiples of that amount doing the place up, like he has donePity he did not buy most of the antiques / contents of the house at the well publicised auction at the time so....it would be a more original package now if he had.
So he is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn'tlol. I think he has angered more than a " few serial objectors ". Many of the locals as well as visitors to the area are not impressed with the shoddy new barrier he erected, denying access on an often and well used right of way.
Yes the serial objectors are the ones driving this and its full of blow in's, there are very few locals involved. The barrier doesn't block them walking, its just blocks cars and tractors etc. If a right of way exisits and i doubt it does they can walk it and not drive it0 -
So he is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't
Nobody would have said he was damned if he did ( preserve the integrity of Lissadell house by buying most if not all of the contents at auction ). If he did indeed have millions to spend on the house, it is a pity he did not buy most of the contents of the house, as it would have maintained the authenticty of the visitor experience. Most of the antiques in the house were scattered around the country and abroad, as reported with pictures on the main RTE television news at the time.
Maybe a tribunal could be set up to look in to it..?0 -
Nobody would have said he was damned if he did ( preserve the integrity of Lissadell house by buying most if not all of the contents at auction ). If he did indeed have millions to spend on the house, it is a pity he did not buy most of the contents of the house, as it would have maintained the authenticty of the visitor experience. Most of the antiques in the house were scattered around the country and abroad, as reported with pictures on the main RTE television news at the time.
Maybe a tribunal could be set up to look in to it..?
Well it looks like you are very good at spending other peoples money.
As somone who has visited Lissadell on a number of occasions i appreicate what the family has done to the place, they are the best thing to happen to the house in a long time.
At least they had the guts and the resources to buy the place and do it up. The people that are objecting are what i call serial objectors, it looks like they cannot help themselves, but if it was up to the same people Lissadell would be a shell that they could walk around0 -
Well it looks like you are very good at spending other peoples money.
lol I was merely trying to help out a few barristersAs somone who has visited Lissadell on a number of occasions i appreicate what the family has done to the place, they are the best thing to happen to the house in a long time.
lol I am somone who has also visited Lissadell on a number of occasions ...far more than I could ever count ... and like many others I feel its a shame things have got worse. Not only have most of the original contents of the house gone, along with all their history, but now access is denied on many rights of way which people have travelled on for generations.At least they had the guts and the resources to buy the place and do it up. The people that are objecting are what i call serial objectors, it looks like they cannot help themselves, but if it was up to the same people Lissadell would be a shell that they could walk around
They had the guts to buy the place, I'll give them that. They had the resources....what is one and a half million at the height of the celtic tiger to the country's top barristers ? Especially considering it got them 400 acres as well ( ever tried to buy a half acre site in that scenic area ?). I know many of the locals in that area, they are not what anyone could call " serial objectors " lol. They are not wordsmiths , and the walks around Lissadell are not the only thing they do not have access to. Shame on those who try to bully them.0 -
This is directed towards the anti-Lissadell brigade.
<snip>
Re Tribunals -- obviously you don't have a clue and the particular areas of law in which Eddie Walsh and Constance Cassidy specialise.
Re 'Should have bought all contents' -- Sir Josslyn Gore Booth had a number of 'attic clearance' sales post the sale of Lissadell House. During that sale the current owners purchased 70% of all contents -- not bad.
If you are interested in any aspect of the House, why not travel to PRONI in Belfast -- for family archive.
Anyway's cats out of the bag, the tenor of comments posted by Jimmy et al, opposed to Lissadell House owners (which their ire focussed through the prism of the Right of Way) are now just rehashing same old issue and bleating.
Let's see who has the last laugh. <snip>0 -
shellyriver wrote: »This is directed towards the anti-Lissadell brigade.
<snip>
Re Tribunals -- obviously you don't have a clue and the particular areas of law in which Eddie Walsh and Constance Cassidy specialise.
Re 'Should have bought all contents' -- Sir Josslyn Gore Booth had a number of 'attic clearance' sales post the sale of Lissadell House. During that sale the current owners purchased 70% of all contents -- not bad.
If you are interested in any aspect of the House, why not travel to PRONI in Belfast -- for family archive.
Anyway's cats out of the bag, the tenor of comments posted by Jimmy et al, opposed to Lissadell House owners (which their ire focussed through the prism of the Right of Way) are now just rehashing same old issue and bleating.
Let's see who has the last laugh. <snip>
In my view the important thing is the fact that rights of ways are protected. Who owns the house, tribunals, archives in Belfast are all irrelevent. If there was a Right of Way being used by locals through those grounds over a period of years, this must be protected.
Your implication that people who advocate a Right of Way through the Lisadell land are really only opposed to "Lisadell House Owners" is a bit non-sensical and a blunt attempt to tar everyone with the same brush.
I read that 40 people signed a petition for the Rights of Way.
Are all these people lying about their belief in that Right of Way and really only trying to get at the owners? I doubt it.0 -
I am actually very much pro-Lissadell. I love the area and have spent a lot of time in the area over the years and know many people there.shellyriver wrote: »This is directed towards the anti-Lissadell brigade.
Really ? Perhaps you can supply more details of these alleged "attic clearance" sales ?shellyriver wrote: »Re 'Should have bought all contents' -- Sir Josslyn Gore Booth had a number of 'attic clearance' sales post the sale of Lissadell House.
I have a big, thick original catalogue from that auction and challenge anyone to find 70% of the lots in Lissadell house now. There were hundreds of buyers at the very well publicised auction.shellyriver wrote: »During that sale the current owners purchased 70% of all contents -- not bad.
charmingshellyriver wrote: »Let's see who has the last laugh.0 -
shellyriver wrote: »This is directed towards the anti-Lissadell brigade.
<snip>
Re Tribunals -- obviously you don't have a clue and the particular areas of law in which Eddie Walsh and Constance Cassidy specialise.
Re 'Should have bought all contents' -- Sir Josslyn Gore Booth had a number of 'attic clearance' sales post the sale of Lissadell House. During that sale the current owners purchased 70% of all contents -- not bad.
If you are interested in any aspect of the House, why not travel to PRONI in Belfast -- for family archive.
Anyway's cats out of the bag, the tenor of comments posted by Jimmy et al, opposed to Lissadell House owners (which their ire focussed through the prism of the Right of Way) are now just rehashing same old issue and bleating.
Let's see who has the last laugh. <snip>
If you are interested in any aspect of the House, why not travel to PRONI in Belfast
Easier and more enlightening to visit http://www.sligoheritage.com/Archcoffinships.htm or http://www.sligoheritage.com/archpomano.htm0 -
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Re Right of Way -- do you need neon lighting to realise that court action has been undertaken by owners of Lissadell House to assert their contention there is no right of way.
It will be addressed by judiciary -- not misinformed local yokels, blow-in malcontents and self-serving parish pump gombeen politicos.
Funny how Co Council, executive and elected, all gone quite on matter in local media!
End of story -- for now.
Re catalogue -- an estimate of the contents in Lissadell sold after the house was sold is 70%. Eg gold-gilded chandeliers -- so you know how much these cost, along with Williams and Gibton Furniture.
Check Mealy's Auction sales where Sir Josslyn sold goods prior to house being sold.
Re the PRONI record -- the reason I mention this is that, facetious as this is, even if Lissadell House was blown to pieces to the IRA in the 1970s -- the history of the House is contained with archives in Belfast. Therefore, if anyone is interesting the history/culture of area -- in the absence of House -- can discover the history of the area 'warts and all' there as Irish Government financed National Library not prepared to catalogue Lissadell archives.
Re SligoHeritage site -- concerning the House. I'm afraid Macroom you've been sold a pup.
Just like the grandiose and deluded visions of 'dear olde Ireland' as outlined versions in the 'Wind that Blows the Barley' -- completely pro-Republican guff -- where Countess Markievicz has encounters with Clonakilty Wrassler, the veracity of stories on that site re the Gore-Booths are odious, false and actually ludicrious.
No respected, informed and balanced historian would subscribe to the hog-wash concerning the Pomana during the Famine -- being utter garbage, lies and falsehoods dragged up by Parish Priest in 1880s to assist in keeping peasantry as a cohesive unit during Land League campaigns.
There are many fine publications concerning Lissadell -- the one by penned those on SligoHeritage, certainly ain't fine or accurate, just more propaganda as in the 'Hot Air that Blows the Barley' fables that mypoic post-peasantry historical romantics seek to cling to warm the cockles of their black heart.:D0
This discussion has been closed.
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