Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

Wibbs wrote: »

That study is so slanted it's beyond laughable. For a start the sample groups tend to be tiny and the demographics chosen somewhat vague. I'd put as much store in most of that "study" as I would the studies backing up an ad for wrinkle reduction cream. Even then their conclusions are equally dubious. When you look at the overall picture, it's not as definitive as you suggest.

EG Irish language as a basis for Irish unity/identity. The figures break down overall to 30% agree it is. OK, but ranged against that are the cumulative figures for neither agree/disagree, don't know and disagree come to 66 odd per cent. Basically "Meh". This is pretty consistent throughout the various results with a few outliers.

On the aspirations for preservation of the language a tiny amount want Irish only. Naturally as that would be eye swivelingly daft. An equally tiny amount want it bilingual with Irish as the main language. Between them near 10% mind you. The real hardcore. People you don't want to hem you in on a bus seat. Bilingual with English as principle is a third. That makes more sense. The largest group at over 50% want it preserved in the Gaelthact and for cultural type stuff, no bilingual there. 7% want it discarded. Equal in scale to the nutters that might ruin your bus trip. That 50% seem happy to keep it alive, but not quite in their backyard. In their backyard again we have the "meh" factor. So your "93% in favour of Preserving/Promoting Irish in the future" is a nice bit of statistical massaging, but on further analysis doesn't quite break down that way. And this is a clearly biased and small sample group "study". Though for a change that sample group is larger. A full(well nearly) thousand people. I know. Tickle me with a feather and colour me impressed. Not. A couple are literally in the range of eyelash enhancements "surveys" with sample groups of 200 odd and the like.

On the "Now:
56% either somewhat or strongly in Favor
11% either somewhat or strongly opposed.". Cool and the gang, but what about the 33%? More "meh"? Add them to the opposed we get Meh with a hint of feck off at 44%. Now look at the questions themselves. Of that 56% how many are "somewhat" in favour? More "Meh, but yea I suppose so"? If that's a large chunk of that cohort it makes a difference. Slanted questions tend to get you slanted answers.

If that's what passes for scholarship into the Irish language, it's in trouble. It's about as one sided as a one legged man in a leaning contest and just as crap standing up as conclusive proof of anything.

deise go deo wrote: »

So lets take a look at your argument again, going to school is compulsory, have you a long-lasting resentment and antagonism twords school?
The vast majority of people who have gone through the Irish education system has been forced to do Maths, English, History, Science, Geography, CSPE and depending on the school you could have been forced to do a language, Art, Home Ec, Tech Drawing, Metal/Woodwork etc at some point, why no resentment/hatred for these subjects?
If compulsion is the causal factor in resentment/hatred, then anything that is compulsory will be resented/hated, this is clearly not the case as far as I can see.

You're missing the point. Other subjects like Maths, Sciences, Foreign Languages, Home Ec, History, English, Geography and Practical Subjects are all relevant and have a good reason to be compulsory. Why?

.Maths - teaches basic addition, subtraction, division, teaches calculations, arithmitic, graphs. Maths skills will also help you manage your money. Maths has helped bring technology to where it is today and will continue to do so, as long as each generation is taught it. Maths is involved in almost everything in this world.

.Sciences - give you an understanding of life, biology, physics, chemistry. Every object, solid, liquid or gas is created through biology, physics, or chemistry. Biology for example has helped me understand viruses better - I won't waste money on antibiotics when I have a bad cold, because antibiotics don't help cure viral illnesses. That's useful knowledge.

.Foreign Languages - are very useful if planning to visit non-English-speaking countries, which most of us will do at some point in our lives.

.English - teaches letter-writing skills, debating skills, how to spell, read and write and teaches you countless new words, as well as how to write stories. Vital skills we'll all need.

.History - teaches us of events of the past which influence the world we live in today. eg how Ireland got it's independence, WW1, WW2, the Cold War.

.Geography - for example teaches you how to read maps. A very useful and potentially a life-saving skill if lost. Geography teaches us how the world works, both physically and economically. We do live on Earth after all, it would make sense to know how it works, by learning about it's physical features, how weather works, it's effects and a bit of economics too.

.Home Ec - teaches cooking skills, which are useful around the house and can let you decrease reliance on parents a bit.

.Art - can make you money.

.Practical Subjects, eg Wood - very useful for DIY skills if let's say I want to build my own furniture at home then I can with a bit of knowledge and experience with joinery methods, using power tools, measurements, etc. Construction studies also teaches you how houses are built, foundations, how roofs are made, Planning Permission, Site Safety, Insulation, how building materials are made, etc. These I know will be extremely useful to me in the future.

Irish on the other hand will never be relevant enough to justify it being compulsory. It's taught badly, a small minority only actually use it for day-to-day communication. Note ''small minority''. If no one else you know can speak it back to you, never speaks it, or don't know how to speak it, then there's no real reason for it being compulsory. It's a huge waste of money and an even bigger waste of time for those who will not use it. If the government actually cared about Irish, then they would've reformed it's teaching and also likely would have removed it as a mandatory subject a long time ago. If it's worth teaching, it's worth teaching right. Irish is more of a hobby language and should be optional to suit both those who have shown interest and commitment to the language, and those who don't take the same interest and would rather spend their time and resources learning something they actually value. Then everyone's happy in this case.

I've explained this link between compulsion and resentment before. I'll use more examples. Car insurance is compulsory for all drivers - no one likes being forced to pay car insurance. If Mandarin was compulsory for example, even if you knew you were never going to visit China, wouldn't you resent being forced to learn Mandarin? There certainly is a link.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yet adding them to the total of "in favour" is not nonsense?

56% either somewhat or strongly in Favor
11% either somewhat or strongly opposed.

Cool and the gang, but what about the 33%? More "meh"? Add them to the opposed we get Meh with a hint of feck off at 44%.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

In what way is the current system "unsuitable for being optional"?

Again, this is what suits the language, not what suits the student and the education system.

For one thing, the key reforms (I would imagine) will be brought in at primary school level. It's a good 5 to 10 years before they do the leaving. How does this effect students that are going to do the leaving in the next five years or so?

Jess16 wrote: »

This is Ireland, not some little mid-Atlantic stopoff that only exists to cater to whatever other nationality decides to drop by. We need to reclaim our country, start making our own rules and regulations and preserving our authenticity instead of pandering to other people's expectations.