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What if I -want- to work more than 48 hours?

  • 16-06-2011 9:09pm
    #1
    DivaGamer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭


    I currently work a full time 40 hours week over 4 days (10 hours a day), under the Working Time Regulations I can only work 48 hours so over my 3 days off I can only work 8 of them.

    Now in Northern Ireland & the UK, you can sign an 'Opt Out' letter that allows you to work longer however in the Republic of Ireland apparently this isn't possible (according to my HR department).

    The issue is I was recently turned down a promotion due to 'lack of experience' and I can only get the experience outside of the company (as it's completely different to my current role).

    Ideally I would like to get 16hr/20hr part time job over my weekend to get this experience, but this is going to knock me up to working 56hr/60hr weeks.

    Personally, I have no issue with that - could do with the money. In the UK I signed an Opt-out and worked an additional two jobs while working full-time at a bank and it suited me down to the ground.

    So my question is - what happens if I just take the extra job and don't tell either employer? Do the Tax Office suss out I'm working too much and report me to the hard-workers-fine-office? Anyone know the consequences?

    Any advice appreciated.


Comments

  • #2
    gerrycollins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭gerrycollins


    Your best bet is to contact the revenue office for advice because they will have to divide your credits etc between both your jobs. You can choose to give no credits etc to your second job however it means paying 41% tax rate on all your part time earnings.

    However your employer will find out from the revenue and you might be in breech of their contract about working a second job etc.

    Can you do a second Jon cash in hand or for free just to gain the experience you need?


  • #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,655 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    gerrycollins wrote: »
    Your best bet is to contact the revenue office for advice because they will have to divide your credits etc between both your jobs. You can choose to give no credits etc to your second job however it means paying 41% tax rate on all your part time earnings.

    However your employer will find out from the revenue and you might be in breech of their contract about working a second job etc.

    Can you do a second Jon cash in hand or for free just to gain the experience you need?

    Your employer will find out from Revenue that you have not allocated all your tax credits to them. But they won't know if this is due to a second job, or to you making provision for the tax from something else like foreign rental income (Revenue have a nice bucket that they can use to help you do this).

    But if you want to get the experience so as to get promoted with the current employer, then the current employer needs to know about the 2nd job. Whether they will allow it or not depends on their own employment and H&S policies, as well as the law about maximum working hours.

    I don't know if the max working hours law applies across all jobs, or is just per-job.

    But if I was a manager and your employment contract said that you could only work a 2nd job with permission, then I would be very reluctant to approve and arrangement that saw you working so many hours each week. Way too much chance that you'd get sick from the stress of such long working hours, and then make a claim against the company 'cos we'd approved it. (The last company that I worked in overseas even wanted managers to approve employee hobbies and voluntary work, to avoid the risk of stress like this. Most of us turned a blind eye to the policy because we thought it was mad. But the policy-writers did have a point: we could be held liable in some cases.)


  • #4
    shoegirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    Not the first time I've heard this argument. There isn't an opt out in most sectors here anymore, so legally you cannot work 48 hours. This isn't an intentional attack on your rights, its an effort to stop employers from forcing workers to work such hours.

    You could look at working every 2nd weekend instead of every weekend. Or just look for a job that will give you relevant experience. It seems unfair to refuse you promotion on the grounds of inexperience yet refuse you the right to earn that experience on the job.


  • #5
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    Have to say I laugh when i hear of this 48 hour max work week. None of you have had the misfortune to work in Fund accounting at any stage. Its 'normal' to work considerably longer than 48 hours a week -and only get paid for the 40 hour week. A normal week at month end could be 8-8 5 days a week with lunch taken at your desk (thats 60 hours btw)


    Companies get away with it by saying they only pay the 40 hours and that you are expected to get the job done - if you cant get it done in the 40 hrs then tough...stay late and do it


    OP- if you need extra experience to get a promotion in your current job, i'd say the best course of action is talk to your manager and work out ways of getting the experience in your current job. As a last resort look at taking on a second job. If you do take on a second job, then dont tell your employer (mainly as its none of their business what you do in your free time -regardless of what the contract says. That clause is usually there to stop people working for competitors at the same time)


  • #6
    RedXIV
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    Bit confused about this...I've reguarlly worked multiple jobs exceeding 48 hours a week. just get taxed to bits on one of them?

    Had a summer where I was working 8-5 Mon-Fri as a games tester, 9-3 in a bar Thur-Sun and 12-8 Sat-Sun. It was the fastest summer of my life, and I made a fortune simply because I hadn't time to spend the money. The only thing I seem to have had a repercussion with was when I went to check p21's for the last 4 years and I got 2K tax back for that year.

    If it's not in your contract OP, i'd say go for it


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  • #7
    gerrycollins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭gerrycollins


    RedXIV wrote: »
    Bit confused about this...I've reguarlly worked multiple jobs exceeding 48 hours a week. just get taxed to bits on one of them?

    Had a summer where I was working 8-5 Mon-Fri as a games tester, 9-3 in a bar Thur-Sun and 12-8 Sat-Sun. It was the fastest summer of my life, and I made a fortune simply because I hadn't time to spend the money. The only thing I seem to have had a repercussion with was when I went to check p21's for the last 4 years and I got 2K tax back for that year.

    If it's not in your contract OP, i'd say go for it

    Exactly, I worked similar roles, 3 jobs, before 2 of them with the same company so they knew I was well over the 48hours max limit and they knew about the third job too.


  • #8
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    I was listening to a radio show a while ago, and a van driver phoned in saying that his employer said that he must stop doing jobs in his spare time as it meant he was exceeding the 48 hours. A solicitor who was in the studio fielding the questions said that this is correct. I think it's nuts.


  • #9
    InReality
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    Working a lot of hours a week does no-one any good in the long run.


  • #10
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Yeah, but ~50 hours isn't really burning the candle at both ends though.


  • #11
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,655 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Eoin wrote: »
    Yeah, but ~50 hours isn't really burning the candle at both ends though.

    I think it is, but maybe it depends on the stresses of the job.

    I've done some 45-50 hour weeks in a previous job, when I had to cover for the manager who was away. This was IT / apps-support, so not physically challenging. But head-wrecking, and I found that once I got over the 45 hour mark, the quality of my thinking went down a lot - I made mistakes that I simply wouldn't have done otherwise.

    In jobs that are physically challenging, or even mentally like driving needs huge concentration, I could image that 50 would be too long.


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  • #12
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,140 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Just don't let your main boss know about the other job tbh. Have certainly done it before.

    I'd regularly work 70 - 80 hours in a week (longer if you consider being in a different country for your "off" time as part of your work week... actually had a 17 hour day yesterday: had to be in the airport for 5am and didn't get back until 10pm). It's far from unusual in IT, finance, law or many other professions.


  • #13
    pow wow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    Agreed - so long as both jobs don't know about the other there's no-one there to stop you really. If you're in an organisation of a reasonable size information on your tax credits won't go any further than the payroll department.

    However if you plan to rely on this second job as an example of experience should another opportunity for promotion come up at your company then you'll have to come clean, and your employer at that point may not appreciate not having known sooner.


  • #14
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I currently work in security for 10 euro an hour ,im 46 years of age with 2 young kids and a morgage i need to do 60 to 70 hours a week to earn a decent wage . Why the **** didn,t we in the r o i do the same as england and have an opt out.


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