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Live Neutral reverse?

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Comments

  • #32
    ntpm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭ntpm


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Yea but the live can be shown to be a complete continous loop but still have a socket reverse connected, this would not show in a ring continuity test, unless the socket had a blue connected to a brown. But its more likely the 2 browns would be together in the neutral terminal and the 2 blues also together in the live terminal, so the socket is reverse polarity, but the ring still has complete continuity. Only a polarity test at each socket will show positively the polarity is correct or incorrect if thats the case.



    1. Continuity of Protective Conductors
    I would plase a strap between phase and protective conductors in the distribution board and test between phase and earth terminals at each socket outlet in the circuit.
    This should confirm that my live have been connected to the live terminal only.


    2. Continuity of Conductors in Ring Final Circuits
    Taking appropriate readings at the socket outlets;
    On a ring circuit you should see a progressively increase in value as readings are taken towards the midpoint of the ring, then progressively decreasing towards the other end of the ring.
    An error in this respect will be apparent ring.


    I am always up to being corrected if the above is incorrect... Everyday is a learning day for me.:o


    One of my earlier points in a post is taking reading is one thing... knowing and interpretating what they mean and show is another thing.


  • #33
    Electricman999
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Electricman999


    ntpm wrote: »
    Totally agree with M cebee and Electricman999.


    IMO Self regulation is No regulation as far as Dodgy Contractors (electrical, gas, oil, plumbers, builders) are concerned,,,
    Have'nt we learnt any thing from the Banks.

    SuperG makes a good point...

    Although the certs that should be filled out with every circuit / protective details/ fuse ratings and corresponding readings I have been involved with RECI and ESCAA certs and they only ask for overal readings etc..

    How many times have you seen each of the boxes filled in with actual readings.


    They should make you do a print out of the test readings via the machine to actually show times and dates, calibration details.

    This would ensure contractors are not just putting in generic figures
    that they know will pass.


    If you are suposed to do test then they should be fully documentated and be able to stand by them.


    RECI & ECSSA Have now been taken over by CER right.
    I put to you who are CER a group of unqualified suits dictating the terms how RECI & ECSSA members carry out their trade.
    With no on site experience, firsthand knowledge, experience of the industry or trade.
    Does a civil servant in the HSE tell a surgeon how to carry an appendix operation?


  • #34
    ntpm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭ntpm


    Electricman999 wrote: »
    RECI & ECSSA Have now been taken over by CER right.
    I put to you who are CER a group of unqualified suits dictating the terms how RECI & ECSSA members carry out their trade.
    With no on site experience, firsthand knowledge, experience of the industry or trade.
    Does a civil servant in the HSE tell a surgeon how to carry an appendix operation?


    Bring on the revolution!!


  • #35
    Electricman999
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Electricman999


    National trades licensing system on the way in Ireland
    A national licensing system for priority occupations including the electrical industry
    This development of a national trade licensing system in the context of its broader agenda for regulatory reform.


  • #36
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    IMO Self regulation is No regulation as far as Dodgy Contractors (electrical, gas, oil, plumbers, builders) are concerned,,,
    + 1
    I have made this point several times

    I think the solution is simple. IMHO an independent body should certify all electrical work. I think that the advantages of this would include:

    1) All work will be carried out to the correct standard
    2) All contractors will be quoting on a level playing field as no regulations can be broken
    3) There will be more demand for skilled electricians and apprentices. This in turn would improve pay and training for those that take a bit of pride in their work.
    4) Less more for the cowboys that fuel the race to the bottom!


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  • #37
    Electricman999
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Electricman999


    2011 wrote: »
    + 1
    I have made this point several times

    I think the solution is simple. IMHO an independent body should certify all electrical work.!


    Sorry who are the IMHO?????


  • #38
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sorry!


  • #39
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    IMHO = In my humble opinion!
    :D


  • #40
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    ntpm wrote: »
    1. Continuity of Protective Conductors
    I would plase a strap between phase and protective conductors in the distribution board and test between phase and earth terminals at each socket outlet in the circuit.
    This should confirm that my live have been connected to the live terminal only.

    What if the phases were connected to the earth terminal and earths to phase terminal in socket? Would the above not show the same reading? Unlikely to happen, but we cant assume.

    Although i have to say i would of thought once the pre energised socket circuit tests were good (continuity, insulation etc) then the polarity test can be done with it powered on. Whats the advantage of doing a pre power on polarity test of each socket? Even the plug in tester does not confirm its right, earth and neutrals could be swapped and the polarity tester may not trip RCD, it just confirms the live is right.
    But once the RCD tests trip the RCD and the polarity reading says polarity is correct then it is correct.


    I am always up to being corrected if the above is incorrect... Everyday is a learning day for me.:o

    As for all of us. Although we may reach a certain age where it starts to reverse:)


  • #41
    ntpm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭ntpm


    Point taken...
    thanks.

    "As for all of us. Although we may reach a certain age where it starts to reverse "

    grumpy old men..


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  • #42
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Could connect a 9v battery to any socket L&N and RCD off, MCBs on and that would give polarity check to every socket pre-power with miltimeter on dc

    ntpm wrote: »
    Point taken...
    thanks.

    "As for all of us. Although we may reach a certain age where it starts to reverse "

    grumpy old men..

    Yes i can feel it happenin already, i must be old now:)


  • #43
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    M cebee wrote: »
    stop please:pac:


    what do you mean by that? Am I wrong about something here?


  • #44
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    FoxT wrote: »
    what do you mean by that? Am I wrong about something here?

    It was all said already on the first page i think.


  • #45
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    I have re-read it.... oops - duh! dont know how I missed that, thanks.


  • #46
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    FoxT wrote: »
    what do you mean by that? Am I wrong about something here?


    you said it was accidental:)


    -DP switched sockets will break both live conductors

    - L-E short-circuit will trip rcd or nearest protective device in phase/line conductor

    - a hazard anyhow


  • #47
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    M cebee wrote: »
    you said it was accidental:)


    -DP switched sockets will break both live conductors

    - L-E short-circuit will trip rcd or nearest protective device in phase/line conductor

    - a hazard anyhow

    Well reverse polarity would be accidental would`t it,
    How do DP switched sockets come into it, thats ok if every socket has them, the majority probably dont.
    Once there is an RCD though its not a major hazzard alright, but in the house mentioned here by OP there probably is none.


  • #48
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    i was just clarifying that point-if they happen to be DP the switch will isolate


    of course that's why why appliance isolators should break all live conductors always

    anyhow-i would disregard the rcd-not to be relied on for L-E short-circuits in TN systems
    -although it should trip-


  • #49
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Well in a reverse polarity earth fault scenario i would`t disregard anything and would hope the RCD would trip, but i know what your saying.


  • #50
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    M cebee wrote: »
    of course that's why why appliance isolators should break all live conductors always

    Yes that would be a good idea.


  • #51
    carrick
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭carrick


    The fact that someone would walk away from that tells you alot about where the trade is at over the last ten or so years.I heard the term boom sparks being used last week very apt(not in a good context).


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  • #52
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Originally posted by Carrick
    I heard the term boom sparks being used last week very apt(not in a good context).

    It was a decent trade at one time, probably before my time from late 80`s, but it was a mugs game more recently, and thats not just me saying that, i regularly heard others say it, and agree with them.


  • #53
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    i'm at it full time - reci , van , tax+vat and busy

    it's a mugs game alright-and most of the guys doin' it are clowns:)

    not much more to be said

    callouts are nice though-handy money if you get enough of them:)


  • #54
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    seems to be a lot of clueless guys in ECSSA -may be just my ill-informed opinion

    i've met some of them anyhow


  • #55
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Well as 2011 rightly said recently, it is a very wide field electrical covers, and i think an apprentice on a large site could spend most of apprenticeship putting up conduit and lights, and little else. And as a sparks as well. So even though your qualified, you could have done little in the actual electrical part of it. A carpenter will nealry always be working with wood for example, but a sparks could spend years never wiring anything while working on a big site.


  • #56
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    ya robbie i spent ten years on industral callout looking at schematics/troubleshooting everyday:)

    2 years full-time electronics student-spent the whole time in the pub:D

    2 years working in computers in USA

    rest of the time doin dom/com/ind sparking

    and i still dunno what i'm doin half the time:D


  • #57
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Me either, but its the other half the time we get by on:)


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