Is pole-dancing sleazy, sexy or sporty?

banshee_bones · 31-05-2010 10:28am #1

Was just reading this article in todays Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0531/1224271502543.html?via=mr

So as the article says...can it ever achieve that kind of mainstream respectability? The competitors claim that it is a “by women, for women” event? Do you agree? or do you side with the view of Kellie Turtle a feminist blogger who stated that..

“It’s all about sex as performance,” she says. “For all the talk of empowerment, nothing I see here challenges the stereotypes that we know cause women problems. Although I can see that individual women gain something from this, and I would never want to question that, it’s hardly a move towards equality, is it? It still plays into the old idea that women are the objects of sex and men are the consumers.”

cowzerp · 31-05-2010 12:06pm

when the gym i used to work in started it i thought it was going to have sexual overtones, when i took a sneak peak, believe me it does not! this is women doing it for fun rather than to satisfy men while been paid, the girls who do the competitions may like to be watched but everyone to there own..

Feminists are morons so i would not mind what they say anyway.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 31-05-2010 12:13pm

No doubt its sexy. Sleazy...subjective

Guess it could be classified as a sport if marks for technique were awarded.

Though judging by the costumes hair extensions and make-up used it kind of detracts from that image:rolleyes:. You don't see field athletes or soccer players dolled up that way.

It appears to be a sport to the same extent body-building is a sport.

The feminist commentator is a bit annoying, why does everything have to come back to equality

Otis Driftwood · 31-05-2010 1:06pm

I dont think it sleazy and am kind of at a loss as to why people would.It may not be gymnastics but its still a fairly athletic activity

Bottle_of_Smoke · 31-05-2010 1:14pm

nedtheshed wrote: »

I dont think it sleazy and am kind of at a loss as to why people would.It may not be gymnastics but its still a fairly athletic activity

For a lot of people expressing sexiness = sleazy. Pole dancing has historically been seen as a primarily sexual activity.

In fairness I'd reckon if these "sportswomen" wore the same practical clothes/hairstyles as field athletes there'd be a lot less people calling it sleazy.

If the lapdancer look is being cultivated solely by the participants then you can't blame the organisers. But if points are being awarded for how good they look then its no more a sport than britain's got talent

helimachoptor · 31-05-2010 1:21pm

My gf did a couple of courses and she loved it, great fun while really strengthening muscles, but i must say its quite off seeing her and a few other girls coming out of a gym in high heels and mini shorts sweating really bad!

OopsyDaisy · 31-05-2010 2:34pm

Alot my my friends do it, and they're far from sleazy

It's just a fun way or getting fit, it's original, and they're not doing it for the benifit of any man

I don't think it's a sport, but it is really good excerise, and I think it just has bad press, it's automatically seen as sexual, and sleazy, when most people do it for fun and to get fit

c-note · 31-05-2010 2:37pm

This thread definately needs a pole.

(and a dancer)

Smallbit · 31-05-2010 2:37pm

Sleazy is a very subjective term really, and is usually in the eye of the beholder.

I accompanied a good friend of mine (also in her 40s!) to an introductory class in a certain Gym - rhymes with smellies ;-) It wasn't sleazy, but it was sad! There's a certain age of after which we really shouldn't try to slide upside down on a steel pole

People don't judge Burlesque as harshly and it involves just as much sexually provocative styling in revealing outfits. It's also probably more suited to my figure :rolleyes:

CDfm · 31-05-2010 2:56pm

Pole dancing is a lot more difficult than it looks.Or so an expert tells me.

If women do it in gyms -so what.

Pole dancing in clubs is different and it isn't an art form. Sort of like lapdancing really and thats what I associate it with.

No -I dont think women should be judged for it or burlesque anymore than wearing a bikini at the beach. That would be silly.

entropi · 31-05-2010 3:56pm

CDfm wrote: »

Pole dancing in clubs is different and it isn't an art form. Sort of like lapdancing really and thats what I associate it with.

No -I dont think women should be judged for it or burlesque anymore than wearing a bikini at the beach. That would be silly.

This is what I was thinking...there is a difference between Pole Fitness and Pole Dancing...

And I had placed the dancing part of it in lapdance clubs.

Indeed, women should not be judged on it one bit, its an alternative, but effective way of improving both muscle strength and tone, and reducing bodyfat because of the workload they are putting their body through in those sessions. Sure two girls in my class this year (both 19) done around 10 sessions each and found it to be great fun, and great to help with improving fitness...all while behind closed doors in a gym with only other women allowed to look/participate so self esteem issues go away, improving confidence in themselves.

It should not be looked upon as sleazy at any time, it only becomes sleazy if you allow it to be.

CDfm · 31-05-2010 4:15pm

Exactly, and sleazy is in the eye of the beholder.

As part of a fitness regime -no probs.

Pole dancing in clubs is different, but even then, what gives me the right to judge anyone and its not something thats exciting anyway.

I think its down to the "Hunky Dory" style stereotypes and that any man who sees a piece of naked flesh on a billboard has a slumbering wild beast inside him which gets awakened when his animal passions get aroused and the like.

It bothers women more than men who are more worried about clean socks.

Snowie · 31-05-2010 7:46pm

There's two types of women who do it. The babe station or any of the other male entertainment channels, most of them look like an umpa lumpa whos has a facial raping bye a crayola.
Over 90% of the women are sleazy looking, granted to a degree the light is burning brightly for the mass's for me nah...

What is sexy, is watching a woman dance with a pole, but not really care whats going on around her shes listening to her music and expressing waht she feels at the time. Which is where song placement comes into play.

To me women can look sexy with out going to extream lengths, which unfortunatly seems to be all the rage which is a shame cause there are a lot of women who are sexy. But unfortunatlly, they appear to beleave that, wearing big fake ilashs 17 layers of make up, and ridiculasly revealing clothing and placing to much enfisis on how they look.

Unfortunatly they don't really realise that sexy/confidance comes with in.

So in a case no its not sleazy just some of the people that do it...

CDfm · 31-05-2010 8:33pm

Snowey - I'm so glad you've posted as I am a bit confused.

Now -way back when -feminists were the ones preaching about freedom of expression and sexuality and nuns were preaching cover up.

Now is the feminist blogger Kellie Turtle really an undercover nun or should I cut back on the chocolate brownies.

Snowie · 31-05-2010 8:37pm

CDfm wrote: »

Now -way back when -feminists were the ones preaching about freedom of expression and sexuality and nuns were preaching cover up.

Now is the feminist blogger Kellie Turtle really an undercover nun or should I cut back on the chocolate brownies.

I'm sorry, my attention span drops after hearing the word feminist.

vicecreamsundae · 01-06-2010 12:57am

i don't find it sexy, sleazy or sporty.

my issue with poledancing/polefitness as a form of excercise isn't complicated. i feel the same way about it as i do when i see someone wear a playboy rabbit watch/hoody/whatever. i think it's lame, and a bit sad that women are being sold such b.s. and lapping it up. that's my personal opinion, and before i get jumped on, i don't personally judge women who take part in it as "stupid" or "sleazy" or anything else negative like that. instead i'm aware not every woman cares about the things i do, or feels the way i feel, and that's fine.

and just on the point CDfm made about how feminists "were once preaching about freedom of expressions and sexuality", i think those things are important. but in my opinion, writhing around on a metal pole in a way inspired by lapdance clubs where men pay to watch women, is about as far from expressing sexuality as you can get! i think there's a big difference between looking sexy and expressing sexuality.

i'm a little curious about how many of the posters so far are all like "women shouldn't be judged for it...its great for the gym..... very different to a club.....it's only sleazy if you allow it to be".
what exactly makes it sleazy then? if men can see? is it sleazy if the woman enjoys it more with an audience? just a bit confused about the definition of sleazy, and what makes poledancing/fitness completely acceptable in one scenario, yet in another environment the women are judged to be "sleazy".

Nervous Wreck · 01-06-2010 1:01am

banshee_bones wrote: »

The competitors claim that it is a “by women, for women” event?

I hate when companies etc use that phrasing. You can use that template to make anything sound vaguely innovative.

"Needle Sharing: By the junkies, for the junkies."

vicecreamsundae · 01-06-2010 1:03am

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I hate when companies etc use that phrasing. You can use that template to make anything sound vaguely innovative.

"Needle Sharing: By the junkies, for the junkies."

hahaha it's trueeee

Tails142 · 01-06-2010 1:10am

Check this out and then say whether you think its sleazy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gGpAriVywY

To me its both sexy and shows that incredible athletic talent is required

CDfm · 01-06-2010 3:34am

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

i don't find it sexy, sleazy or sporty.

my issue with poledancing/polefitness as a form of excercise isn't complicated. ............ i do, or feels the way i feel, and that's fine.

Its relative isnt it. Poledancing doesnt do it for me either. Taste is arbitrary and there is a level of silliness people should be able to get away. Not everything needs to be sophisticated.

and just on the point CDfm made about how feminists "were once preaching about freedom of expressions and sexuality", ...........i think there's a big difference between looking sexy and expressing sexuality.

And there is a difference between imposing a value system on someone else and the blogger quoted seems a bit of a puritan. Which coincidentally the "feminist blogger" came accross to me as.

I had an old english teacher who told us victorians covered up table legs. Well some may have but others had seaside peers and saucy postcards and musichall.

i'm a little curious about how many of the posters so far are all like "women shouldn't be judged for it...its great for the gym..... very different to a club.....it's only sleazy if you allow it to be".
what exactly makes it sleazy then? if men can see? is it sleazy if the woman enjoys it more with an audience? just a bit confused about the definition of sleazy, and what makes poledancing/fitness completely acceptable in one scenario, yet in another environment the women are judged to be "sleazy".

poledancing in a fitness studio is just that. fitness with a bit of anarchistic fun.

I was at a spar tonight at around 8.30 and a woman arrived in in a pyjamas. I put her age group around 30 and she was with another woman and both had a child in tow.

Silly in my book maybe fashion for someone else and its the same in a nightclub scenario if its entertainment or a bit of fun.

Poledancing in a lapdancing club is part of the adult entertainment industry -personally its not for me -but its relatively harmless.

Nevyn · 01-06-2010 9:10am

CDfm wrote: »

poledancing in a fitness studio is just that. fitness with a bit of anarchistic fun.

Poledancing in a lapdancing club is part of the adult entertainment industry

Pretty much the above it's the context.

gbee · 01-06-2010 9:13am

"addiction to the pole'

YES, that's why they keep coming back, but if i, as a man were ever to suggest that to my GF, ~~ well you know where that could lead ....

enda1 · 01-06-2010 9:15am

Its like a cross between mud wrestling and pilates.
Mud wrestling for the sexy side and pilates for the latest fad exercise.

Women are just suckers for fashion, whether it be in clothes, music or exercise apparently.

banshee_bones · 01-06-2010 10:24am

Tails142 wrote: »

Check this out and then say whether you think its sleazy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gGpAriVywY

To me its both sexy and shows that incredible athletic talent is required

Just watched that now and the athletic talent is just amazing, what struck a chord with me was the gaudy lighting and the attire. Surely for the athletic/sport-competitiveness aspect they dont need to be bikini clad with heels surely?

CDfm · 01-06-2010 10:51am

I think some people are looking for stuff in pole dancing that really is not there.

The arbitrer of good taste and family fun Jerry Springer had a pole on his show and even a conventionally woman can do it. I am just posting this vid to put it in context like a nightclub setting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZf-wHY7jAA

Nothing sleazy there and nothing you wouldnt see in a nightclub.

Those who find it offensive should give the Wright Venue a miss. For that matter they should avoid Fossets Circus and give the Olympics and Womens Tennis a miss too.:D

Chupa_chick · 02-06-2010 4:47pm

Hey guys,

So I don't normally respond to anything to do with comments on pole dancing, and I don't want to ramble, so I'm going to try and make it short.

I am a competitive pole dancer. I've been training for a couple of years, and I recently came 3rd in the Irish Pole Championships (which is a different competition to the one mentioned in the article).

What is sleazy? How do you determine if pole dancing is sleazy?
In my opinion, if someone is dancing purely for the sexual benefit of someone ELSE, that's sleazy.

If someone is dancing for the pure love of the performance, and other people just happen to be watching and enjoying it too, that's not sleazy. This can be said of any type of art form - music, dance, etc.

Pole dancing started in the clubs.
Actually, that hasn't been proven. Chinese circus pole has been around for a LONG time (cirque de soleil anyone?), and there is also a little known Indian Martial Art called Mallakhamb which involves male acrobatics on a thicker pole, which again has also been around longer than poling in the club. Check out a vid of it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRXzbPzGwZA

Why the heels? and the skimpy clothing?
Heels is a personal choice, many train in barefeet or sneakers. Like ballroom dancing, heels will lengthen legs and make everything look more graceful, plus its a lot easier to hide an un-pointed toe!

Skimpy clothing is a logistical one. To do many of the moves required in poledancing and hold yourself up, you need skin contact on the pole in order to grip. That could be your waist, hip, armpit or knee. This is a shiny metal pole we're talking about people, wearing longsleeved or skin-covering clothing means you'll slide down. However, in saying that, I know a lot of pole dancers that would be quite happy if someone invented a fabric that could also grip and be worn as a unitard!

Finally, I would like to remind everyone about other forms of dance.

Ballroom - they wear heels, its technically a sport, they wear bucketloads of makeup and fake tan, the costumes (particularly in latin) are gaudy and often skimpy. The moves with a partner often have VERY strong sexual overtones.

But is it sleazy?

Hip Hop - again, can be lots of makeup, skimpy clothes, lots of hip thrusting, bum-wiggling, defiantly sexual and suggestive moves.

But is it sleazy?

This shouldn't even be a question, whether about ballroom, hip hop, or pole. Unfortunately due to the nature of the press, they will never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Exaggeration, overuse of emotive adjectives, you know the deal...

Finally, I will leave you with these three amazing pole dancers who competed last night in the semi finals of Australia's Got Talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6wxE0kSII4

I would also STRONGLY encourage you all to watch Britain's Got Talent this Friday, as Alesia Vamitzel is performing her pole dancing act in the semi-final, and she truly brings the circus-performance aspect into pole dancing (she is sooo bendy!)

Dr Galen · 02-06-2010 5:25pm

excellent post chupa

I've just watched that youtube video, and sat with mouth open prety much from start to finish. Not because I found it titillating, though they are attractive girls, but because the sheer athletisicm of those girls is amazing. To get yourself into that sort of condition, with the upper and lower body strength required is deserving of huge respect!

Smyth · 03-06-2010 10:31pm

ah, this is always a touchy subject.

It just boils down to your personal feelings on the matter.

I don't buy into it as a pure sport. Big hoop earrings, g-strings and 5 inch heels don't constitute as sportswear to me i'm afraid. I'm not denying the athleticism it takes, but I think there's this weird need for people to want to justify everything and to create silly arguments as not to offend. And by offend, I mean contradicting the social norm of what's acceptable.

But who are you offending? The women on the pole. Apart from the pure strength it takes to do those things, it's also an expression of the female human form. Sexual? ****íin right it is. But what's wrong with that? We're all human. We're all sexual beings. If you can't appreciate that, or if it makes you feel uncomfortable, that's grand. The door is over there.

Bottom line is people can do whatever they want. Express and dress up in whatever they feel comfortable in. What bugs me is when people are lambasted for not agreeing or not willing to change their views on what they feel comfortable with. There's a lot of "oh, i'll say this because I know that's what I'm meant to say" rather than "I'll say this because it's what I actually think". It's ****ín rife in this country, and even more so on teh interwebs. ESPECIALLY in threads like this.

CDfm · 05-06-2010 10:36am

Just a thought on guilty pleasures. So it has that attached to it & probably makes women feel great about themselves.

It sounds very healthy to me for body and mind

pento · 30-06-2010 2:35pm

sexy

BumbleB · 01-07-2010 9:52pm

CDfm wrote: »

.

I think its down to the "Hunky Dory" style stereotypes and that any man who sees a piece of naked flesh on a billboard has a slumbering wild beast inside him which gets awakened when his animal passions get aroused and the like.

Very Freudian.

Is pole-dancing sleazy, sexy or sporty?

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