Money left in ATM machine

who_ru · 28-09-2013 9:44pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

What is this bit supposed to mean?

others applauding the woman's dishonesty.

Fred Swanson · 28-09-2013 9:58pm

This post has been deleted.

SCOOP 64 · 28-09-2013 10:03pm

I know she took the money ,but i don't think she will the biggest criminal on the guarders hit list, she might even hand it in to her own bank on Monday.

trellheim · 28-09-2013 10:11pm

Ha ha. Ya that's great advice.

The footage is owned by the garage, they can give it to the op or whoever they want

Comedy geniuses here.

That tape can't be given to op as unless there's a sign walkin in the door saying CCTV can/will be given out to all and sundry without a warrant then its not allowed ( and even then I'm not sure you can waive that right in Ireland ) . try it out, go ask Dunnes stores, AIB, Marks & Spencer or Tesco for the last 60 minutes on a USB stick

And b : you give that footage to a copper you could have shopped it yourself, unless GS gets a signed/certified evidence off the shop footage directly your Cd is worthless ( no chain of evidence )

Victor · 29-09-2013 12:13am

Tell bank and Garda now, but hope that she hands it in on Monday.

dudara wrote: »

To be honest, I don't know if she "stole" your money, but a Garda can offer an opinion on that.

There is an offence along the lines of 'theft by finding'.

kc90 · 29-09-2013 12:36am

hfallada wrote: »

ATMs are programmed to shallow money that isnt taken. I would report the women. If I found money in an ATM, I would take it. But I would tell the petrol station workers I found money and the owner can call me. I wouldnt trust the workers in the petrol station.

Clearly it would have been best had she handed it in, it's the 1st place the OP went when trying to retrieve it. Perhaps she held the same mistrust? She may still have handed it into a Garda station.

S28382 · 29-09-2013 11:02am

I was at an ATM in Kilkenny a few weeks back some guy was in front of me using the machine he walked off leaving what looked like a considerable amount of money (by the looks about 500euro) i could of kept it as no one else seen him leave it in the ATM. I took it from the machine and shouted after him gave him his money i didnt even get a thanks he just said "oh right" and off he went. I didnt want anything for being honest just a thanks would of done.

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2013 12:23pm

MYOB wrote: »

There is absolutely no legal concept of "finders keepers". Life isn't controlled by 7 year olds.

Is it too late to have it added to the referendum?:)

allthedoyles · 29-09-2013 8:57pm

Funny thing happened to me once . - the guy in front of me left his card in the ATM and drove off .

So when I approached the atm , it was at the stage where you could select to withdraw .

I pressed the €100 option , and took the money .
So next day I rang the bank and told them to contact the card owner and give him my number .
He called to the house next evening and I gave him his €100 and his card .
He did say thanks quietly .

dudara · 29-09-2013 11:52pm

Victor wrote: »

There is an offence along the lines of 'theft by finding'.

Wasn't actually aware of that until now. Good thing to have learned.

Cd_doe · 30-09-2013 12:09am

I would be of the opinion that it is not theft.

"Dishonestly appropriating property with the intention of depriving the owner of it".

The way it came into her possession was not dishonest on her part. It was because of your stupidity.

I think she proved that she was not intending on depriving you of it by going outside looking for you.

Now I'm not saying that she was morally right. She should have made more efforts to locate you (and maybe she did, she may have rang a Garda station asking if anybody has reported losing it).
But legally speaking I think it would be hard for the guards to get a theft conviction in this instance.

I don't think it's the women's fault. I don't think it's the banks fault. I don't think it's the guards fault. I don't think it's the shop assistants fault.

It's your own fault.

I hope you get it back and learn from your mistake.

Fred Swanson · 30-09-2013 12:20am

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Kristopherus · 30-09-2013 12:24am

Cd_doe wrote: »

I would be of the opinion that it is not theft.

"Dishonestly appropriating property with the intention of depriving the owner of it".

The way it came into her possession was not dishonest on her part. It was because of your stupidity.

I think she proved that she was not intending on depriving you of it by going outside looking for you.

Now I'm not saying that she was morally right. She should have made more efforts to locate you (and maybe she did, she may have rang a Garda station asking if anybody has reported losing it).
But legally speaking I think it would be hard for the guards to get a theft conviction in this instance.

I don't think it's the women's fault. I don't think it's the banks fault. I don't think it's the guards fault. I don't think it's the shop assistants fault.

It's your own fault.

I hope you get it back and learn from your mistake.

Of course its dishonest. She took it knowing it did'nt belong to her. How's that not dishonest.

IMHO she may have thought about giving it in to the shop, but then thought "F**k it I'll keep it". And that is stealing, plain & simple.

30-09-2013 1:32am

Victor wrote: »

There is an offence along the lines of 'theft by finding'.

Theft by finding is a very difficult concept to prove in criminal law - and I don't think the changes made to Irish law in 2001 really help.

The original law - Larceny Act, 1916 - clearly said that it was theft if you found something and kept it in the belief that the owner could be found by taking reasonable steps.

The current law - Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001 - is almost the opposite way round. It says that it is not theft if you find something and keep it in the belief that the owner cannot be found by taking reasonable steps.

In either case, the Gardaí and the courts have the problem that the test is almost entirely about the mental state of the finder. The question is not whether the owner can be found - it is whether the finder believes the owner can be found.

In the post-2001 situation, the second problem is that the the law doesn't define what is theft. Instead, it defines what is not theft. Before even getting to the facts of the matter, the Gardaí and the DPP have to get the courts to define theft by agreeing that the opposite of what the Act says is true - in other words, that it would be theft if you were to take something that you found without looking for the owner.

While I would have some considerable sympathy for someone losing money in such a manner, I have to say I can see why a Garda might decide he didn't want to touch something like that with a bargepole.

Fred Swanson · 30-09-2013 1:35am

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Zillah · 30-09-2013 1:45am

trellheim wrote: »

That tape can't be given to op as unless there's a sign walkin in the door saying CCTV can/will be given out to all and sundry without a warrant then its not allowed ( and even then I'm not sure you can waive that right in Ireland ) . try it out, go ask Dunnes stores, AIB, Marks & Spencer or Tesco for the last 60 minutes on a USB stick

The OP has already said the shop will give him a copy, so this is irrelevant. Maybe the thief could make a complaint through the Data Protection Act but that is neither here nor there, nor is it the OP's concern.

And b : you give that footage to a copper you could have shopped it yourself, unless GS gets a signed/certified evidence off the shop footage directly your Cd is worthless ( no chain of evidence )

He can give his copy to the guards to help kickstart their investigation, and they can get their own verified copy later if there is a prosecution.

Stop being obtuse.

Depp · 30-09-2013 1:49am

McLoughlin wrote: »

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

So if you leave your car in a carpark and someone takes it its finders keepers? <SNIP>

Cd_doe · 30-09-2013 8:57am

Kristopherus wrote: »

Of course its dishonest. She took it knowing it did'nt belong to her. How's that not dishonest.

IMHO she may have thought about giving it in to the shop, but then thought "F**k it I'll keep it". And that is stealing, plain & simple.

I would be saying she took it with the intention of going out of the shop to see of the op was still around... which was in this case confirmed by the cctv. This is not dishonest.

Maybe your picking me up wrong, I fully agree that there were better steps she could have taken to locate the owner.

I'm just suggesting that in my opinion it would not come under theft.

OP, I think your best bet would be to try get the vehicle registration number in the garage. Bring that to the guards and hopefully they could call to the owner and ask them to give you the money.
If the owner says no or denies it, at this stage it would become theft in my opinion as that would be the required proof that she is intending on depriving you of your property.

I think without that proof it does not come under theft as stated on the theft and fraud offences act 2001.

Good luck

who_ru · 30-09-2013 10:20am

Cd_doe wrote: »

I don't think it's the women's fault. I don't think it's the banks fault. I don't think it's the guards fault. I don't think it's the shop assistants fault.

It's your own fault.

I hope you get it back and learn from your mistake.

where i did i say it was someone else's fault?

the woman did not go outside looking for me.

MrStuffins · 30-09-2013 10:51am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm all for acknowledging that taking someones' money after they leave the ATM isn't the nicest thing to do ever but a year in prison is ridiculously harsh!

Kenny Logins · 30-09-2013 11:16am

McLoughlin wrote: »

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

I've read some funny Lionel Hutz stuff on here over the years, but 'Finders Keepers' thing is my favourite .

Tordelback · 30-09-2013 11:28am

Cd_doe wrote: »

The way it came into her possession was not dishonest on her part.

If one of my kids tried that line on me, they'd be staring at their bedroom walls for a week while they had good long think about it.

What hope does society have if taking someone's money, when there are half a dozen ways of getting it back to them, isn't considered dishonest by any number of people on this thread who have at least the brains and education to use a keyboard?

30-09-2013 11:33am

michael999999 wrote: »

Contact the guards as she stole your money. Bring a copy of the security footage.

HAHA Contact the Guards , Good one

The MAchine is supposed to suck that back in after a certain amount of time. It can and cant be classed as theft.

Galadriel · 30-09-2013 11:39am

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA Contact the Guards , Good one

The MAchine is supposed to suck that back in after a certain amount of time. It can and cant be classed as theft.

But the woman didn't allow the machine to swallow the money she took it out and kept it.

SlickTalker · 30-09-2013 12:02pm

One thing that makes me think that she didn't intend on keeping the money was the fact that she went back to take out money from her own account. Surely after taking out a three figure sum she could have just walked straight out the door and not returned to the atm.

Kenny Logins · 30-09-2013 12:19pm

SlickTalker wrote: »

One thing that makes me think that she didn't intend on keeping the money was the fact that she went back to take out money from her own account. Surely after taking out a three figure sum she could have just walked straight out the door and not returned to the atm.

Yeah, I did wonder about that too.

Billy de Bollix · 30-09-2013 12:28pm

I was actually faced with this dilemma on Fri gone....the wife and I pulled into a large retail outlet and stepping outta the car she found (€170)! We sat in the car and discussed A. Handing it over to the management of the centre. B. Handing it into the local station. Eventually we decided to pocket it as simply we do not trust either party would bother their arse finding the poor sod and would pocket the lot or it would be "office drinkies at the chrimbo party" It's paying for some car trouble now but I still feel a tad guilty. Obviously if it had been attached to a wallet or ATM we would not have thought twice about it. If this bitch actually had the gall to pocket this poor sods cash from an ATM I hope she gets bloody caught! Commiserations:'(

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 30-09-2013 12:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA Contact the Guards , Good one

The MAchine is supposed to suck that back in after a certain amount of time. It can and cant be classed as theft.

Glad you found something funny in this. She took money that was not hers. It is theft by finding. She did not let the machine swallow it. On going to the door after the OP she did not hand the money in. The Gardai are the people who enforce our laws, in case you don't know that. You may find the notion of informing the Gardai funny but it is the correct thing to do.

This was ultimately theft - perhaps a comical theft to you but still a theft.

Kenny Logins · 30-09-2013 12:36pm

Billy de Bollix wrote: »

I was actually faced with this dilemma on Fri gone....the wife and I pulled into a large retail outlet and stepping outta the car she found (€170)! We sat in the car and discussed A. Handing it over to the management of the centre. B. Handing it into the local station. Eventually we decided to pocket it as simply we do not trust either party would bother their arse finding the poor sod and would pocket the lot or it would be "office drinkies at the chrimbo party" It's paying for some car trouble now but I still feel a tad guilty. Obviously if it had been attached to a wallet or ATM we would not have thought twice about it. If this bitch actually had the gall to pocket this poor sods cash from an ATM I hope she gets bloody caught! Commiserations:'(

You kept it because you think others are dishonest?

metroburgers · 30-09-2013 12:39pm

Billy de Bollix wrote: »

I was actually faced with this dilemma on Fri gone....the wife and I pulled into a large retail outlet and stepping outta the car she found (€170)! We sat in the car and discussed A. Handing it over to the management of the centre. B. Handing it into the local station. Eventually we decided to pocket it as simply we do not trust either party would bother their arse finding the poor sod and would pocket the lot or it would be "office drinkies at the chrimbo party" It's paying for some car trouble now but I still feel a tad guilty. Obviously if it had been attached to a wallet or ATM we would not have thought twice about it. If this bitch actually had the gall to pocket this poor sods cash from an ATM I hope she gets bloody caught! Commiserations:'(

or maybe you could've just held on to the money, put up a sign that an amount of money was found and inform said retail outlet to contact you if claimed. The outlet can't force you to handover the lost money. Kinda obvious to me...

Money left in ATM machine

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