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Foynes and Ringaskiddy Motorways

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Comments

  • #32
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Did anyone else notice that the photo accompanying the Indo article is of a British motorway. I've caught Irish newspapers doing that many times. Lazy use of Google Image Search!


  • #33
    zetalambda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 822 ✭✭✭zetalambda


    Nordicgael wrote: »
    Foynes is irelands second largest port and have a plan for future expansion -
    so it isnt as small or as quiet as it may look -
    besides its a good thing to plan properly for the future.hopefully irish ports may become busier over the coming years - galway harbor has a big expansion plan going through the planning process right now.

    I'm not sure about that.

    Dublin:

    5989913.jpg

    Cork:

    portofcork.jpg

    Foynes:

    Foynes-by-air425-x350.jpg
    relaxed wrote: »
    I think Shannon Foynes collectively is the second biggest by tonnage, but then again there are really only 3 or 4 large operations, Dublin, Cork, Shannon Foynes and maybe Waterford, so its not like its near the top of a big list.

    Moneypoint and Aughinish make up a lot of it, and they are self contained in their own facility, so will never need a motorway.

    I doubt it. Dublin takes 60% of Irelands total trade and Cork takes 20% which doesn't leave a lot for the remaining ports.

    TINA1984 wrote: »
    Would the restoration of the railhead at Foynes be a more cost effective option then a new build road?

    Likewise with the N28, though it would be a huge asset to the lower harbour area, it's still just going to be mainly beneficial to commuters. it still seems strange that the Port of Cork want to build a new port away from mainline road and rail down in Ringaskiddy. Building a new facility on or near the N25 and Cobh railway is surely the more sensible option?

    They are also planning on buying a land-bank on the Cobh side of the harbour, presumably because it gives them access to the rail line.


  • #34
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    zetalambda wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that.

    I doubt it. Dublin takes 60% of Irelands total trade and Cork takes 20% which doesn't leave a lot for the remaining ports.

    You've only shown one part of the port there. Shannon Foynes Port includes Foynes, Limerick Docks, Shannon, Tarbert, Moneypoint and Aughinish.

    From it's own website
    Shannon Foynes Port Company, Ireland’s second largest port operation , has statutory jurisdiction over all marine activities on a 500km2 area on the Shannon Estuary, stretching from Kerry/Loop Heads to Limerick City. The strategic location of our terminals offers access to the vibrant economy and population of a large part of Ireland.

    SFPC specialises in bulk cargoes, which constitute more than half the cargoes transiting Irish ports. SFPC accounts for more than 35% of all bulk cargoes in the Republic (CSO 2010)

    It doesn't justify a motorway for the Foynes bit, but the figures are correct.


  • #35
    moyners
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    Their website is probably technically correct but when you delve a little deeper the story is a little different.
    From their website:
    Shannon - Terminal dedicated to aviation fuel imports (for the airport presumably)
    Aughhinish - Terminal dedicated to the import of bauxite and export of alumina for Rusal facility (An aluminium refinery)
    Tarbert - Terminal dedicated to fuel oil import (for Tarbert power station)
    Moneypoint - Terminal dedicated to coal imports for ESB electricity generating plant

    Only Limerick docks and Foynes take general shipments of containers etc.

    So, yes, they do process all of those bulk shipments which may make it the second largest port "operation" in the country but since for all the terminals listed above the shipments are used right there and don't need transportation, they shouldn't affect whether the port needs a motorway or not...


  • #36
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    moyners wrote: »
    they shouldn't affect whether the port needs a motorway or not...

    Read the last line of my post.


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  • #37
    moyners
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Read the last line of my post.

    Sorry, was agreeing with you on that part. Just fleshing out where I think they're getting their statements on their website.


  • #38
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    zetalambda wrote: »
    They are also planning on buying a land-bank on the Cobh side of the harbour, presumably because it gives them access to the rail line.

    The main road in to Cobh/Marino Point (where the rail line is) is a joke. It handles 12-15,000 cars per day and is lethal. That must be upgraded if anything were to happen on the Cobh side
    Could you imagine 100 additional trucks on that per day?
    Seriously neglected for years and needs major updating.


  • #39
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    BionicRasher wrote: »
    The main road in to Cobh/Marino Point (where the rail line is) is a joke. It handles 12-15,000 cars per day and is lethal. That must be upgraded if anything were to happen on the Cobh side
    Could you imagine 100 additional trucks on that per day?
    Seriously neglected for years and needs major updating.

    A perfect opportunity for An Bord Pleanala to insist on use of the railway instead of road.


  • #40
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    cgcsb wrote: »
    A perfect opportunity for An Bord Pleanala to insist on use of the railway instead of road.

    You still need to get good roads to service the railway line. How would you get freight in and out of the area otherwise?
    It should be planned properly and then we won't have to redo it 10 years down the line like everything else in this country.


  • #41
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    BionicRasher wrote: »
    You still need to get good roads to service the railway line. How would you get freight in and out of the area otherwise?
    It should be planned properly and then we won't have to redo it 10 years down the line like everything else in this country.
    Isn't there a quay/wharf at the fertiliser factory?
    Then you can get goods off ships to trains, no roads needed


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  • #42
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Isn't there a quay/wharf at the fertiliser factory?
    Then you can get goods off ships to trains, no roads needed
    Fine if you don't want your freight to go to Waterford or the South East. The rail lone goes as far as Midleton and that's it. I am sure that not every container would go via rail.
    That's why I say these things need to be planned correctly so as all angles are looked at
    You still need a road network to service the railway terminal and shipping wharfs
    Ringaskiddy will rely entirely on road unless they plan to throw in a rail line which is not going to happen.


  • #43
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    BionicRasher wrote: »
    Fine if you don't want your freight to go to Waterford or the South East. The rail lone goes as far as Midleton and that's it. I am sure that not every container would go via rail.
    That's why I say these things need to be planned correctly so as all angles are looked at
    You still need a road network to service the railway terminal and shipping wharfs
    Ringaskiddy will rely entirely on road unless they plan to throw in a rail line which is not going to happen.

    No the rail line comes out of the old IFI Plant and joins up with the Cobh/ Cork line, therefore it is on the mainline. Midleton is much further east, but is as you say a dead end.


  • #44
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    kub wrote: »
    No the rail line comes out of the old IFI Plant and joins up with the Cobh/ Cork line, therefore it is on the mainline. Midleton is much further east, but is as you say a dead end.

    Yes on the main line with Cobh / Cork but Midleton is a spur on that line also as it branches off at Glounthaune (old Cobh junction station) but is a dead end so any freight going to the South East would have to go by road and the roads out of the area are atrocious
    That's why I say if this is part of the Ringaskiddy port development they will have to look at improving the roads in and around Cobh as well as just blasting ahead with the motorway to Ringaskiddy otherwise it's half a job.
    Then again we are used to half arse jobs and improper future proofing in this country so why am I surprised!


  • #45
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    Indeed forward planning in this country is a joke, I suppose some genius will propose that Irish Rail reopen North Esk and any containers for Waterford/ Wexford can be taken off the train there for road transfer.


  • #46
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Planning for the Foynes-Limerick road has started. http://clareherald.com/2014/07/15/foynes-limerick-city-road-scheme-planning-begins-2378/


  • #47
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    pigtown wrote: »
    Planning for the Foynes-Limerick road has started. http://clareherald.com/2014/07/15/foynes-limerick-city-road-scheme-planning-begins-2378/

    What standard of road are they going with. Presume 2+2 would be the very max they'd consider ?


  • #48
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    What standard of road are they going with. Presume 2+2 would be the very max they'd consider ?
    It's still in Feasability stage so they won't have decided. But I agree that 2+2 is the max and really just online widening with a few bypasses is all you'd need.

    Either that or the other idea where you build a new Rathkeale-Foynes road and direct traffic along the M20.


  • #49
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    cgcsb wrote: »
    A perfect opportunity for An Bord Pleanala to insist on use of the railway instead of road.

    There's also a huge problem with access for emergency services to Cobh due to only one narrow bridge.

    It effectively means you cannot site dangerous industries down there, including ports handling anything nasty.

    IFI wouldn't pass modern European requirements for emergency access under The Seveso Directive.

    If there was a port in Cobh it couldn't handle anything like chemicals, fuel etc.


  • #50
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    OT I know, but Cobh had grand plans for a new 2+2 route from the edge of Fota Island right the way in. It died along with the boom.

    The Belvelly Bridge does the job well enough though for the time being. Could do with peak time traffic lights though.


  • #51
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭Limerick74


    I see the council have set up a project web site for the scheme foyneslimerick.ie


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  • #52
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    OT I know, but Cobh had grand plans for a new 2+2 route from the edge of Fota Island right the way in. It died along with the boom.

    The Belvelly Bridge does the job well enough though for the time being. Could do with peak time traffic lights though.

    A roundabout would be sufficient.


  • #53
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    This map from the Indo showing proposed service stations seems to indicate that the Foynes road will be dual carriageway on the basis that all the other grey lines on the map are dual carriageways.

    NEWS-service-stations.png


  • #54
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    A roundabout would be sufficient.

    Roundabout non runner in Belvelly - not enough room.
    If the road layout was marked correctly it would be fine - needs proper road markings for traffic going in to Fota (over 450,000 visitors a year to Fota means a lot of traffic on that section of road)
    traffic lights also might be needed if there are to be big trucks going in and out of the area for the proposed new metal recycling facility at the former Verolme dockyard in Rushbrooke in Cobh

    Its mad to think that all that traffic goes in and out of the Belvelly area each day and there isn't even a cats eye on the road.

    Maybe the area is better off without a new road in through the west side of Fota island as was planned and that an upgrade of the existing road would be sufficient and allow the area to develop as a proper tourist area rather than have a new road which would bring heavy, dirty and possibly dangerous industry with it.


  • #55
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    The new road would have hugged the east side of Fota Island and was to be a partial on-line and off-line build.

    Presume the N25 side of the road would have been maintained with a spur coming off the old road somewhere past the entrance to Fota Resort.

    IMG_6634.jpg


  • #56
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Back on topic?


  • #57
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    Getting out on to the N28 current Ringaskiddy road from Raffeen is a nightmare - I wonder what the figures are for traffic from Shannon Park Roundabout to Ringaskiddy each day?

    I think its a badly needed upgrade with current traffic levels


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