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The Winter Bulk of a Newbie Lifter

  • 31-10-2014 12:00am
    #1
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭


    Hello all,

    I'm 19, male, and weight 65kg.

    My goal is to bulk up to between 75-80kg by next March.

    This is also my first time to take part in serious lifting. I have done some bodyweight work before but never weights. I have just started lifting this week to find my starting weight for each of the exercises.

    I plan to do a full body workout twice a week. This consists of:
    -Deadlifts
    -Barbell shoulder press
    -Bench press
    -Pullups
    -Squats

    I know it's not suggested to do deadlifts and squats in the same workout, or even to do deadlifts twice a week, but based on my age and recovery time I think I can pull it off for a few months at least.

    I did this full workout today, here are my starting weights:
    Deadlift: 1x5 x 70kg
    Squat: 3x5 x 60kg
    Bench: 3x5 x 55kg
    Pullups: 3x8 (I should be doing weighted but haven't had the balls yet to ask the gym can I put dumbells in a backpack for the pullups)
    Shoulder press: 3x5 x 30kg

    I might add in rows of some form in the future.

    Hope to post a my workouts here Monday's and Thursday.



    Also, a small question for anybody well versed in Deadlift form. I'm noticing I'm bending my back on the way down of the deadlift. I can go up perfectly, back straight and I feel it in my glutes and hams, but on the way down I can't seem to keep my back straight without the bar hitting my knees. This leads to a slight bend in the back and the lower back seems to end up doing a lot of work.


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Comments

  • #2
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    I hope one of the more experienced lifters steps in and provides some advice for you or you'll be crippled in a week or two.

    You're making the typical, naive mistake of thinking you can do it all at once. Ah youth!

    Technique is the most important first step. It will last you a lifetime. Wax on, wax off.

    Education as to why you should spread out those compound exercises is next. Move your gains goal out, treble it. Focus on technique and programming. This way you'll be flying in 3 months rather than broken.

    Heed this advice multiple times over if you're playing a sport.


  • #3
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    ixus wrote: »
    I hope one of the more experienced lifters steps in and provides some advice for you or you'll be crippled in a week or two.

    You're making the typical, naive mistake of thinking you can do it all at once. Ah youth!

    Technique is the most important first step. It will last you a lifetime. Wax on, wax off.

    Education as to why you should spread out those compound exercises is next. Move your gains goal out, treble it. Focus on technique and programming. This way you'll be flying in 3 months rather than broken.

    Heed this advice multiple times over if you're playing a sport.

    What's wrong with a full body routine? The only problem I can see with my routine is the squats and deadlifts the same day twice a week.


  • #4
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Aspiring wrote: »
    What's wrong with a full body routine? The only problem I can see with my routine is the squats and deadlifts the same day twice a week.

    It's not a problem with the full-body routine, per se. You're better off not putting squiats and deads together twice a week, especially if your form hasn't been nailed down and you've said that's the case.


  • #5
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    A good place to start would be to read every thread Hanley ever started in H&F. Start here.

    Generally speaking, you work one main compound lift, then do the accessory lifts for the muscles that would support that lift (make it stronger). The next day, do another compound and work other muscle groups allowing the previous days muscle group to repair (get stronger).

    If you tax all your muscles all the time, they won't repair. It's when they repair that they get stronger. That's why rest is important. You just increase your chances of injury if you work all your muscle groups all the time.

    Also, you'll have less energy to give to your bench if you work it the same day as the others when starting out.


  • #6
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    I only have access to a gym Monday-Thursday. That's why I'm not doing starting strength. Would changing it to squats one day deadlifts the next be better? I figured out what was wrong with my DL form, my timing for moving hips and knees were off.


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  • #7
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    You're probably better separating them out until you get the form to where it should be for both squats and deadlifts.


  • #8
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Form is fine now, I just don't understand where the problem is if I was able to do the workout and I feel fine the day after. I think the workout is fine especially considering I have 3/4 days rest between each workout.

    I dunno, maybe you are all right, but if I was able to do the workout on only two days rest why would I not be able to do it on more rest. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.


  • #9
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Aspiring wrote: »
    Form is fine now.

    Just on this, getting videos of you doing he lift or having someone who knows what's what is important so you know where your form is at. Otherwise you don't really know if it is fine.

    I only say that because I only really found out I was wrong after a) it was pointed out to me and b) I started to video deadlifts and saw for myself.


  • #10
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    You're looking to achieve a muscle mass gain of 10/15kg.

    Think logically here, would you get the maximum benefit out of doing a deadlift on the same day as a squat and bench? Much better to push your 3/5rep max on one of these each day and do the accessories.

    You will lift bigger compounds as opposed to struggling to up the weights on 5/6 big lifts.

    Squat mon
    bench tues
    dead thurs if thats what your timeframe allows.


  • #11
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    ixus wrote: »
    You're looking to achieve a muscle mass gain of 10/15kg.

    Think logically here, would you get the maximum benefit out of doing a deadlift on the same day as a squat and bench? Much better to push your 3/5rep max on one of these each day and do the accessories.

    You will lift bigger compounds as opposed to struggling to up the weights on 5/6 big lifts.

    Squat mon
    bench tues
    dead thurs if thats what your timeframe allows.

    Thanks, I wouldn't move through the weights as quickly but it would probably be better in terms of injury prevention.

    What kind of accessory work would you suggest each day.


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  • #12
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Aspiring wrote: »
    Thanks, I wouldn't move through the weights as quickly but it would probably be better in terms of injury prevention.

    What kind of accessory work would you suggest each day.

    If you use something like the program structure Hanley put up and ixus linked to, you could do the squat as your main lift and something like 5x8 doing RDLs and same for lunges and 4x12 for something like leg extensions and hamstring curls.

    Doesn't have to be those and there are a few different exercises you could use but the basic idea is to do exercises that strengthen your squat


  • #13
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    Aspiring wrote: »
    What's wrong with a full body routine? The only problem I can see with my routine is the squats and deadlifts the same day twice a week.

    I back squat Monday, Wednesday and Friday, Front squat and Deadlift Tuesday, Thursday and most Saturdays. If you are recovering (ie adding weight every workout while maintaining GOOD form) keep it up. Beginners can do ridiculous stuff and progress. If you're doing something and it works it doesn't matter if 1 or 1,000 people tell you it wont work.

    The goal is to get stronger and not get injured. That means adding weight and maintaining form. How you do that is moot.

    The advice on the deadlift is going to sound facetious but anyway, just do the first have of the rep in reverse. Really think about how you do the deadlift. It's different depending on someone's starting hip position, but think of how you're moving an do it in reverse. I imagine you're bending your knees too soon after breaking at the hips on the way down.


  • #14
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    generic2012 wrote: »
    I back squat Monday, Wednesday and Friday, Back squat and Deadlift Tuesday, Thursday and most Saturdays. If you are recovering (ie adding weight every workout while maintaining GOOD form) keep it up. Beginners can do ridiculous stuff and progress. If you're doing something and it works it doesn't matter if 1 or 1,000 people tell you it wont work.

    The goal is to get stronger and not get injured. That means adding weight and maintaining form. How you do that is moot.

    The advice on the deadlift is going to sound facetious but anyway, just do the first have of the rep in reverse. Really think about how you do the deadlift. It's different depending on someone's starting hip position, but think of how you're moving an do it in reverse. I imagine you're bending your knees too soon after breaking at the hips on the way down.

    Thanks for this. I think I'll keep going the way I am for as long as i can, as you said beginners make crazy progress.

    About the deadlift advice, that's the way I've started thinking about it. At the time I couldn't understand how I was coming up perfectly then the way back down was the problem. I've been practising just with a bar since then and seem to have fixed the issue.

    Just on the split routines some mentioned, I think for my goals (strength and size for sport, I forgot to mention this) full body routines make more sense. I guess I'll see Monday if I'm making progress.


  • #15
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    Aspiring wrote: »
    Thanks for this. I think I'll keep going the way I am for as long as i can, as you said beginners make crazy progress.

    About the deadlift advice, that's the way I've started thinking about it. At the time I couldn't understand how I was coming up perfectly then the way back down was the problem. I've been practising just with a bar since then and seem to have fixed the issue.

    Just on the split routines some mentioned, I think for my goals (strength and size for sport, I forgot to mention this) full body routines make more sense. I guess I'll see Monday if I'm making progress.

    I meant to say 'Front Squat and deadlift Tuesday, Thursday....', but it doesn't change much.

    Best of luck.


  • #16
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Just a quick update, I've decided pull ups alone aren't really enough for upper back. So I've decided I'm going to do some dumbbell bent over rows. I would go for barbell rows but I'm not sure my form (back specifically) could hold up with all the lower back work already in the workout. I've also decided lateral raises should be thrown in as well. All of these combined with what I already have means all shoulder muscles are covered, which is vital for injury prevention. If I was to get a shoulder injury all of this would be pretty much pointless :pac:


  • #17
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Deadlifts: 1x5x75kg

    Bench:
    Monday: 3x5x57.5kg
    Wednesday: 3x5x60kg

    Pull ups:
    3x10

    Dumbbell shoulder press:
    1x5x15kg each arm
    3x5x12.5kg (wasn't happy with form with 15s,)

    Dumbbell bent over rows:
    3x5x30kg each arm

    Lateral raises:
    1x10x5kg each arm
    1x15x5kg each arm
    1x20x5kg each arm
    (Couldn't find 7.5s :( )

    Cardio:
    About 3k Monday
    2k today varying the incline.

    No squats this week and only one deadlift session because I have a match coming up later this week. This is also why I trained Mon/Wed rather than Mon/Thur. Need put some kind of structured cardio program in place next week.


  • #18
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Forgot to post a weigh in, currently at 67.5kg. Up 2.5 from 2 weeks ago.

    Happy with progress so far, going to try add a bit more too the deadlift as I'm gonna change up the way I do them. I have hit 100kg in the past untrianed (happened to be in the gym after training and a friend challenged me - silly I know) so I feel there's no need to progress as slowly with them as I am. If I was on starting strength I'd be adding more, so I might as well. No more matches or anything until spring so it's all lifting between now and then, honestly can't wait to see the progress I can make :D


  • #19
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Squat:
    2x5x65kg
    1x7x65kg

    Bench:
    2x5x62.5kg
    1x6x62.5kg

    DB shoulder press:
    3x5x15kg each side
    1x10x10kg each side

    Pull ups:
    1x12
    1x10
    1x5 with 7kg

    DB bent over rows:
    3x5x32.5kg
    1x8x30kg

    Deadlift:
    1x5x85kg

    Also cardio warm up / warm down


  • #20
    burrenguy
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭burrenguy


    looking good! Are you doing a max rep set on a number of your exercises?


  • #21
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    burrenguy wrote: »
    looking good! Are you doing a max rep set on a number of your exercises?
    If you are talking about the random instances where I do more than planned (squat and bench last sets) that's just me testing the water for the next workout. Shoulder press however is different as I'm finding it hard to progress.


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  • #22
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    I'm thinking of doing a week of high reps next week for deadlifts and squats. I am progressing pretty fast and hope to do 90kg/70kg tomorrow, however I worry I'm progressing a bit too fast. Slightly worried I'll end up getting a hernia or something if I keep pushing the maxes with these every week. So I think a week to do maybe 10 reps at 20kg less for each would be beneficial to form and injury prevention.

    Anybody have any opinion on this, it would be greatly appreciated :)


  • #23
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Aspiring wrote: »
    I'm thinking of doing a week of high reps next week for deadlifts and squats. I am progressing pretty fast and hope to do 90kg/70kg tomorrow, however I worry I'm progressing a bit too fast. Slightly worried I'll end up getting a hernia or something if I keep pushing the maxes with these every week. So I think a week to do maybe 10 reps at 20kg less for each would be beneficial to form and injury prevention.

    Anybody have any opinion on this, it would be greatly appreciated :)

    Are you following a particular programme?

    Think of it like this - if you're doing something like Starting Strength or Stronglifts as a relative beginner, there will come a point where you're hitting maxes every week. The progression is continuous until the point comes where you start to stall.

    Keep the progression sensible and you'll be fine. Especially considering - as far as I can tell - that you're jumping into uncharted territory as regards doing them at a weight you haven't done before.


  • #24
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Are you following a particular programme?

    Think of it like this - if you're doing something like Starting Strength or Stronglifts as a relative beginner, there will come a point where you're hitting maxes every week. The progression is continuous until the point comes where you start to stall.

    Keep the progression sensible and you'll be fine. Especially considering - as far as I can tell - that you're jumping into uncharted territory as regards doing them at a weight you haven't done before.

    I'm basing it off SS but doing a twice weekly full body programme. I know its not ideal but I'm making decent progress. I haven't started to stall yet, so I suppose I might just continue the way I'm going.


  • #25
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Bench: 3x5x65kg
    Also dumbbell 1x5x25kg each side

    Squat:
    2x5x70kg
    1x6x70kg

    BB overhead press:
    3x5x32.5

    Pullups:
    2x8 w/ 7kg
    2x8

    DB rows:
    3x5x35kg each arm
    1x10x32.5kg each arm

    Deadlift:
    1x7x90kg
    Its 7 because I had done two and an instructor guy mentioned to me that I should try mixed grip. We chatted for a bit about the DL and then I went and did 5 more. I must say this grip is much better.


    Weigh in this Saturday. Hope to hit 70/80/100 for bench/squat/deadlift next week.


  • #26
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Decided I'm gonna throw in some weighted dips as an assistance exercise to bench. Also because I've been reading they're great for shoulder health. Also because my triceps are actually the only muscle in my body that seem to not get hit by the workout, which surprises me considering I'm benching, but anyway. It'll probably just be a set at the end of the workout, don't want it messing with presses or anything.

    I've been thinking about changing from DB rows to barbell. But the whole dumbbell row thing, although a pain in the ass, is progressing pretty fast. So I'll stick with it to 40kg dumbbells at least, at which point I'm not sure if I'll be able to carry the dumbbells anymore :o


  • #27
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    Aspiring wrote: »
    Decided I'm gonna throw in some weighted dips as an assistance exercise to bench. Also because I've been reading they're great for shoulder health. Also because my triceps are actually the only muscle in my body that seem to not get hit by the workout, which surprises me considering I'm benching, but anyway. It'll probably just be a set at the end of the workout, don't want it messing with presses or anything.

    I've been thinking about changing from DB rows to barbell. But the whole dumbbell row thing, although a pain in the ass, is progressing pretty fast. So I'll stick with it to 40kg dumbbells at least, at which point I'm not sure if I'll be able to carry the dumbbells anymore :o

    Check your grip width on bench, it could be too wide.


  • #28
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    generic2012 wrote: »
    Check your grip width on bench, it could be too narrow.

    Wouldn't a narrower grip hit triceps more?


  • #29
    Aspiring
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Aspiring


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Wouldn't a narrower grip hit triceps more?

    My thoughts exactly..


  • #30
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Wouldn't a narrower grip hit triceps more?

    Yes. He says his triceps aren't getting hit at all. To me this would suggest his grip is too wide. This will lead to shoulders taking oveer the lift which always end badly.


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  • #31
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,551 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    generic2012 wrote: »
    Yes. He says his triceps aren't getting hit at all. To me this would suggest his grip is too wide. This will lead to shoulders taking oveer the lift which always end badly.

    True. You'd said it was too narrow so just wanted to check if was just a typo.


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