Help! Car cut out

engrish? · 25-02-2012 11:12pm #1

I have a Daewoo Nubira 2001. I'm hoping someone can help me! I was driving today in the city and the engine started to make a high pitched noise for a while, like the normal noise of accelerating but higher pitched. I knew I had to get out of the city so I headed for home.

After a while (15 mins or so) there was a noise like the belt was struggling or something. Once I took the car out of gear (and was coasting) the noise went. I had to head up a hill so I rengaged the gears and it worked (the car went very slowly despite pressing on the accelerator) but then the car cut out and I coasted to the site of the road. I was able to push it into a car park and have since brought it home.

I cant really afford a mechanics price right now so I am hoping to repair it myself. I am a novice when it comes to car maintenance.

Now when I try to start the car it just whirrs and it doesn't engage.

I have checked the timing belt and it is intact and looks to be in good order. I have checked the spark plugs, all seem fine.

Since the engine is not working, I had wondered if it was the starter motor but could that be right since the engine cut out while I was driving? Is the starter motor used while you are driving or just when you start the car?

I've taken a few photos of the engine, I have a video of the car trying to start too but I'm having difficulty getting it up onto youtube.

Thanks in advance.

Avns1s · 26-02-2012 12:03am

I think it's going to be hard to diagnose something definitively based in what you have posted.

First off, that's the "fan belt" not the timing belt as you call it.

Is there a chance that the alternator is seized or has bearings gone? It would (perhaps) cause the high pitched sound you refer to, accommpanied by a failure to start if there was no charge being delivered to the battery.

Nissan doctor · 26-02-2012 12:38am

Check the timing belt again...but get someone to turn the engine over while your looking at it and see can you see it turning normally.

Edit: Just looked at your pictures, I presume you know that the external belt on the left of the engine is not the timing belt?

jimmyw · 26-02-2012 3:04am

engrish? wrote: »

I have a Daewoo Nubira 2001. I'm hoping someone can help me! I was driving today in the city and the engine started to make a high pitched noise for a while, like the normal noise of accelerating but higher pitched. I knew I had to get out of the city so I headed for home.

After a while (15 mins or so) there was a noise like the belt was struggling or something. Once I took the car out of gear (and was coasting) the noise went. I had to head up a hill so I rengaged the gears and it worked (the car went very slowly despite pressing on the accelerator) but then the car cut out and I coasted to the site of the road. I was able to push it into a car park and have since brought it home.

I cant really afford a mechanics price right now so I am hoping to repair it myself. I am a novice when it comes to car maintenance.

Now when I try to start the car it just whirrs and it doesn't engage.

I have checked the timing belt and it is intact and looks to be in good order. I have checked the spark plugs, all seem fine.

Since the engine is not working, I had wondered if it was the starter motor but could that be right since the engine cut out while I was driving? Is the starter motor used while you are driving or just when you start the car?

I've taken a few photos of the engine, I have a video of the car trying to start too but I'm having difficulty getting it up onto youtube.

Thanks in advance.

No the starter is only used while turning over not while driving.Maybe it is the timing belt.Yes you could say if that was gone, then the engine wont turn and its scrap but I knew a mk 6 escort whos belt went and it made the same whirring sound.It was repaired.If you could look down under the oil filler cap while someone is turning the engine to see if the camshaft is moving underneath or listen for it at the rocker cover.If it is then the timing( not the drive) belt is ok.When you say it wont engage, do you mean the starter wont?

if you like send me the vid and I might be able to link it onto another site.

engrish? · 26-02-2012 12:44pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Edit: Just looked at your pictures, I presume you know that the external belt on the left of the engine is not the timing belt?

Nope I do now though! Thanks for your help... I'm learning at least!

jimmyw wrote: »

No the starter is only used while turning over not while driving.Maybe it is the timing belt.Yes you could say if that was gone, then the engine wont turn and its scrap but I knew a mk 6 escort whos belt went and it made the same whirring sound.It was repaired.If you could look down under the oil filler cap while someone is turning the engine to see if the camshaft is moving underneath or listen for it at the rocker cover.If it is then the timing( not the drive) belt is ok.When you say it wont engage, do you mean the starter wont?

if you like send me the vid and I might be able to link it onto another site.

Thanks to everyone for your help so far. Here is the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEat8CHhcNU

Does that confirm your suspicions?

Thanks

Row · 26-02-2012 1:53pm

Sounds like the solenoid on the starter is'nt engaging...As said above remove timing covers and inspect the timing belt.

jimmyw · 26-02-2012 2:04pm

Ah yeah, problem is with the starter alright.You cant bate the pic/vid LOL!.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8 · 26-02-2012 2:13pm

I'm not a mechanic but the starter motor wouldn't have caused the original problem. Did any warning lights on the dash come on.

Row · 26-02-2012 2:14pm

jimmyw wrote: »

Ah yeah, problem is with the starter alright.You cant bate the pic/vid LOL!.

I was thinking the same until i re-read the OP....Why would a starter cause a
high pitched noise while driving...

engrish? · 26-02-2012 2:16pm

Eleanor Yummy Sellout wrote: »

I'm not a mechanic but the starter motor wouldn't have caused the original problem. Did any warning lights on the dash come on.

No, no warning lights....

Row wrote: »

I was thinking the same until i re-read the OP....Why would a starter cause a
high pitched noise while driving...

It sounded like something buzzing/grinding, like a garden strimmer or a sander. At the time I thought it sounded like the fan belt coming apart or falling off.

Eleanor Yummy Sellout wrote: »

I'm not a mechanic but the starter motor wouldn't have caused the original problem. Did any warning lights on the dash come on.

Row wrote: »

Sounds like the solenoid on the starter is'nt engaging...As said above remove timing covers and inspect the timing belt.

I saw a youtube video on starter motors where the guy giving the video said that when the solenoid isnt engaging it is often due to the fact that the oil around it has dried out. Could the timing belt being broken explain that noise too?

I have found a manual for my car which explains how to replace the timing belt. It seems like a fairly large/long job - is that right?

jimmyw · 26-02-2012 2:26pm

Well then as was said before, see if the pulleys are turning when you operate the starter to see if the starter is working.If they are, take off the timing belt cover and check to see if its broken.If they are not turning the starter is not engaging.

Yeah the timing belt replacement is a big job.

Chimaera · 26-02-2012 2:42pm

jimmyw wrote: »

Well then as was said before, see if the pulleys are turning when you operate the starter to see if the starter is working.If they are, take off the timing belt cover and check to see if its broken.If they are not turning the starter is not engaging.

Yeah the timing belt replacement is a big job.

You really shouldn't be trying to start the engine if you think the timing belt is broken. Depending on the engine there's huge potential for damage to valves and pistons as they crash into each other.

Pop off the valve cover and rotate the engine by hand. Use a ratchet on the crankshaft pulley bolt to turn it. The service manual will tell you which direction the engine turns. If the camshaft isn't moving as you turn the engine the belt is broken. A proper repair at this point is best left to a professional.

engrish? · 26-02-2012 2:51pm

Chimaera wrote: »

A proper repair at this point is best left to a professional.

Crap. Ok, thanks.

jimmyw · 26-02-2012 2:56pm

engrish? wrote: »

Crap. Ok, thanks.

check it first.

engrish? · 26-02-2012 3:14pm

jimmyw wrote: »

check it first.

Will do - have no choice! Cant afford a mechanics bill for a while!

Thanks again- will report back soon.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8 · 26-02-2012 3:18pm

If the timing belt snapped you wouldn't have been going anywhere and if i understood your orininal post you managed to drive on for a bit. As was said already its difficult to say whats wrong from a distance. Best to get a mechanic to have a look or even a friend that knows a bit about cars.

engrish? · 26-02-2012 5:39pm

So I have found the timing belt and it looks to be intact. Is this a good sign?

Row · 26-02-2012 8:07pm

Its always a good sign when a timing belt is intact..:)

Is the timing belt rotating when you try to start the engine..?

engrish? · 26-02-2012 9:12pm

Row wrote: »

Its always a good sign when a timing belt is intact..:)

Is the timing belt rotating when you try to start the engine..?

Nope...

The timing belt is tight and when I try to pull on it, it doesnt move. I havent taken the front wheel off yet to see the third/bottom crank but since there is no give on the timing belt I assume it is all intact...

Any more suggestions?

jimmyw · 26-02-2012 9:26pm

I assume Row means is it turning when you operate the starter? It is good if it is turning.

Row · 26-02-2012 9:32pm

Jack up the front of the car (drivers side) put it into 5th gear and rotate the
wheel....if the timing belt rotates then belt should be fine...unless it jumped a tooth and the timing is out...:eek:

mercenary2 · 26-02-2012 9:49pm

ok first going by video the starter is ingaging but engine is sounding rough on turning ..anyone who says stater isnt turning go listen again...

what to do.. check oil in engine sump for shards of metal also the oil filter to see is this blocked if pistons aint getting oil the piston rings could be damaged which means a drop in pressure leading to engine failure ..

Nissan doctor · 26-02-2012 10:04pm

That sound in the video is an engine turning over with no compression.

Even though the timing belt looks intact, I guarantee that what has happened is that the teeth have been stripped off the timing belt by the crank pulley. This is how most GM belts fail when they've been left way beyond their change interval(should be changed every 5 years or 40,000 miles).

@OP, With the greatest of respect, if you didn't even know where the timing belt was, then you won't be fixing this yourself as the cylinder head has to be removed and rebuilt with new valves, seals etc etc.

mercenary2 · 26-02-2012 11:24pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That sound in the video is an engine turning over with no compression.

Even though the timing belt looks intact, I guarantee that what has happened is that the teeth have been stripped of the timing belt by the crank pulley. This is how most GM belts fail when they've been left way beyond their change interval(should be changed every 5 years or 40,000 miles).

@OP, With the greatest of respect, if you didn't even know where the timing belt was, then you won't be fixing this yourself as the cylinder head has to be removed and rebuilt with new valves, seals etc etc.

no sign of belt gone or teeth gone on belt no sign of worn belt around pulleys in pic above so i would suggest belt is not gone but more likely the piston rings due to lack of oil which will give the winning noise as u drive also when it is out of gear less strain on engine = less noise as op mentioned ,if timing belt went or slipped ops car would not make it any further as the engine would of sustained to much damage instantly ,but with damage getting worse the more you drive on unlubricated pistons the more damage you do ,leading to the gradual engine failure ..
have come on this before ... but yes as nissan doc said with all respect enless you know what your at you wont fix either of these probs ..

is the car worth the repair could be cheaper to buy a cheap run about..

there is def.. no pressure in that engine so either way its an expensive repair even if you just had to pay for parts...

Nissan doctor · 26-02-2012 11:28pm

mercenary2 wrote: »

no sign of belt gone or teeth gone on belt no sign of worn belt around pulleys in pic above so i would suggest belt is not gone but more likely the piston rings due to lack of oil which will give the winning noise as u drive also when it is out of gear less strain on engine = less noise as op mentioned ,if timing belt went or slipped ops car would not make it any further as the engine would of sustained to much damage instantly ,but with damage getting worse the more you drive on unlubricated pistons the more damage you do ,leading to the gradual engine failure ..
have come on this before ... but yes as nissan doc said with all respect enless you know what your at you wont fix either of these probs ..

is the car worth the repair could be cheaper to buy a cheap run about..

there is def.. no pressure in that engine so either way its an expensive repair even if you just had to pay for parts...

You can't see the crank pulley or the lower part of the belt in the OP picture.

I don't see anything in the OP's description of events that would point to a piston ring problem.

mercenary2 · 27-02-2012 1:30am

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You can't see the crank pulley or the lower part of the belt in the OP picture.

I don't see anything in the OP's description of events that would point to a piston ring problem.

re read the ops post it gradualy lost the power after the noise it made in town loss of power on hill although trottle fully open ,if timing belt went in town then car would still be in town , and not have made it to were it finally died as i said in my first post blocked oil filter or oil pump failure would result in loss of lub to piston rings which would result in gradual failure of the rings..

and as i also mentioned i have seen it happen ..

when a timing belt goes u will get to much internal damage for him to have continued further or if it sliped it would result in engine misfire resulting in engine vibration which he does not mention....

also if timing belt went valves would be bent yet in video no evidence of tapping sound from pistons hitting them just the sound of engine turning without compression.. no piston rings = no compression

Nissan doctor · 27-02-2012 1:43am

mercenary2 wrote: »

re read the ops post it gradualy lost the power after the noise it made in town loss of power on hill although trottle fully open ,if timing belt went in town then car would still be in town , and not have made it to were it finally died as i said in my first post blocked oil filter or oil pump failure would result in loss of lub to piston rings which would result in gradual failure of the rings..

and as i also mentioned i have seen it happen ..

when a timing belt goes u will get to much internal damage for him to have continued further or if it sliped it would result in engine misfire resulting in engine vibration which he does not mention....

If the timing belt slipped a couple of teeth first then the car would be down on power before it stripped the teeth completely. The squealing could have been a failed/seized tensioner or idler bearing.

If there was a oil pressure issue then the engine would be very noisy and likely the cams would seized or big ends would fail long long before the rings would wear/stick and if it was an issue with blocked spray nozzles then the problem would get worse over a much longer period of time then a few moments as seems to be the case for the OP.

Also, even with seized or broken rings, the upward movement of the piston would still create some compression, normally approx 50-60% leakdown, as opposed to 90% plus leak down with bent valves which would give the free spinning sound in the OP's video.

And besides all of that...he said the timing belt isn't rotating when he turns over the engine.....this points to only one possibility.

engrish? · 27-02-2012 9:43am

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That sound in the video is an engine turning over with no compression.

Even though the timing belt looks intact, I guarantee that what has happened is that the teeth have been stripped off the timing belt by the crank pulley. This is how most GM belts fail when they've been left way beyond their change interval(should be changed every 5 years or 40,000 miles).

@OP, With the greatest of respect, if you didn't even know where the timing belt was, then you won't be fixing this yourself as the cylinder head has to be removed and rebuilt with new valves, seals etc etc.

Thanks for your input. I have no choice bu to try this myself at the moment so if you can bear with me for the moment I would like to try everything I can with your guidance until I know I can go no further. The car was €800 last year so it's probably not worth giving to a mechanic.

Going in what you said, if I take away the front left wheel etc, I should be able to see if the crank pulley markers line up right? In the manual it says these are engraved in. Will that tell me if the threads have slipped?

Nissan doctor · 27-02-2012 10:27am

engrish? wrote: »

Thanks for your input. I have no choice bu to try this myself at the moment so if you can bear with me for the moment I would like to try everything I can with your guidance until I know I can go no further. The car was €800 last year so it's probably not worth giving to a mechanic.

Going in what you said, if I take away the front left wheel etc, I should be able to see if the crank pulley markers line up right? In the manual it says these are engraved in. Will that tell me if the threads have slipped?

Just have someone turn the engine over while you watch the belts. If the auxiliary belt(the one to the left that you could see originally) is turning but the timing belt isn't....then the timing belt has failed.

engrish? · 03-03-2012 4:03pm

Hey

So I had a look at the timing belt today, several of the teeth have been worn away - as many of you expected.

The markers on the intake and exhaust markers still lined up but the crank shaft didnt.

Do you think that there is any point in just replacing the timing belt or would the damage above mean that the pistons etc have been ruined beyond repair?

Thanks

Nissan doctor · 03-03-2012 10:48pm

engrish? wrote: »

Hey

So I had a look at the timing belt today, several of the teeth have been worn away - as many of you expected.

The markers on the intake and exhaust markers still lined up but the crank shaft didnt.

Do you think that there is any point in just replacing the timing belt or would the damage above mean that the pistons etc have been ruined beyond repair?

Thanks

The pistons are unlikely to be damaged unless you were at very high RPM. Its the valves that will be bent. Replacing the belt will be a waste of time as you can tell from your video that there is no compression so all or most of the valves are bent. Head rebuild required unfortunately.

Help! Car cut out

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