Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Project Maths

12357

Comments

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Rex Breezy Quail


    jimkekk wrote: »
    They may account for every year of your maths degree but for 1st Science,1st commerce etc (not haeding towards pure maths) there is no Euclidian geometry .
    1st science in UCD and 1st commerce in UCD have to do stats and maths modules. They have some choice but almost all will end up doing calculus and will therefore use facts of geometry. That or stats which was another thing you asserted they wouldn't have to do.
    The questions are so wordy that many Ord level students will have great difficulties
    It sounds to me like we need Project English to the rescue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    1st science in UCD and 1st commerce in UCD have to do stats and maths modules. They have some choice but almost all will end up doing calculus and will therefore use facts of geometry. That or stats which was another thing you asserted they wouldn't have to do.


    It sounds to me like we need Project English to the rescue.
    It is strange that the only people who welcome project maths is people in 3rd level .The 37,000 Ord level students who are forced to do project Maths will never study maths a third level


  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭PaulieBoy


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    You say you've been teaching for 40 years and yet you have the maturity of one of the pupils you teach.
    I put it to you that you're talking crap.
    I thought abusing/insulting behavior was against forums rules ???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    PaulieBoy wrote: »
    I thought abusing/insulting behavior was against forums rules ???
    As usual the last refuge of someone with no substance to their argument is abuse !
    As I said the project maths committee in the NCCA are not competant and are out of touch with reality .
    The Dept of Ed and SEC have instructed the Pilot schools to disregard the mock papers produced by this committee as "they were too difficult " and did not represent what would be asked in the exam in June!
    In the real world a committe that had received this judgement from their boss would resign .
    But the NCCA(project maths) is not in the real world and they will continue to waste taxpapers money on substandard inservice course and mock papers!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭PurpleVintage


    Well, unlike most of you, i've no constructive or intellectual comments to contribute, as i'm merely one of the scapegoats who was FORCED into doing a completely DIFFERENT course, and who is surely about to fail her maths, and have to waste a year of her life.

    I'm gutted my school is past of the 24 schools taking on the P.M and i'm disgusted with the fact that a half-arsed half-complete course is being forced on us. It's all very well, for some of you to be talking about how simple PM is and how it's an advantage for the current students FORCED into taking it, but from the looks of it, the majority of you in favor of it are way past your Leaving Cert years, so wth would you know about how we feel? I'm one of those 'cliche' students, if you'd like to call it that, that simply cant stand Maths. I have no interest for it, I have no patience for it, I see no reason in learning half of the things on the course. I was in Ordinary Level, and had a hope of passing it, despite my serious case of procrastinating and bad memory, but now? Now i'm sure i'm gonna fail Foundation. And why is THAT? Because of Project Maths. I was under the impression ONLY Paper 2 would be Project Maths, so I went and learned off the chapters that I needed for Paper 1 off by heart and now? Now it's good for nothing. When I ask any teacher for advice, and what the difference in the syllabus between Foundation and Ordinary is, they aren't ABLE to answer me. As a matter of fact, most say 'it's the exact same thing as ordinary, just phrased differently! The questions are identical! The numbers in the answe4r are just smaller." when I tell them i'm going to fail unless someone tells me what to study and what the differences are, they LAUGH and tell me "Ah, sure you wont pet, you'll be grand on the day of the leaving". Well THANK YOU for the wise words.
    I asked my teacher on monday after I found out Paper 1 is P.M as well, what to study and he told me to study both books. You know what that is? It's 700 pages. What about my other subjects? Hell, nvm that.. what about the FACT that 700 pages isnt doable in 7 days? That's 100 pages per day, add or take a few dozen.
    We were given a list of the chapters we should study, followed by a 'but anything in the book can come up, cause we simply do NOT know'. Well that's great. So what about set questions? You know, those questions that were always GUARANTEED they would come up? Oh that's right... nobody knows about that either! So I ask you this... WHAT IS THE POINT OF IMPLEMENTING SOMETHING IF YOU CANNOT GIVE YOUR STUDENTS THE SUPPORT THEY NEED?

    I see people focusing on HL students and students that are WAYY able to get a C2 MINIMUM in their OL Exam. But what about us? What about the people who are just weak at math? Is getting us to pass our Maths not important? The students they focus on are the students that WILL pass... they simply want them to pass with high Bs and As... but what about the ones failing? Is it more important to get a student to pass with an A2 than a student to pass with a D3?

    3 people passed the OL Maths Mock Paper in my class.THREE. 3 out of 27? 28? Now I understand that it's our own fault we procrastinate but this is beyond that. It's lack of support, lack of attention, and downright lack of resources available to help their students.

    So I hear the NCCA Sample Papers are a joke? I guess I just wasted a few hours answering the few questions that I felt I could get some attempt marks at. Funnily enough, my Maths teacher is still using those sample papers to teach the class.

    You know what the worst thing is? Some bits of the PM actually seem to rely on common sense, and seem easy. Yet after 4 years of being taught a certain syllabus, and doing Math in a specific way, I just CANT adapt to that way of thinking... especially not in 7 days.

    So cheers to whoever decided to screw up a year of our lives. I cant get over the fact they decided to take a gamble with OUR future. OURS. As if maths was worth more than us passing the damn LC. I just hope and pray that I can find ACTUAL notes on the internet that will help, since I know I wont be getting help from anywhere else. Shameful.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    Well, unlike most of you, i've no constructive or intellectual comments to contribute, as i'm merely one of the scapegoats who was FORCED into doing a completely DIFFERENT course, and who is surely about to fail her maths, and have to waste a year of her life.

    If I understand you correctly, your problem is firstly, that you changed into Project Maths after some time in the normal LC Maths course and so are thrown off, and secondly that you haven't done enough work and so are having trouble.

    In fairness, the second isn't a fault of Project Maths, rather the unfortunate result of you assuming you only had to study half the course, and the first sounds ambiguous. Could you expand upon how long you've been doing Project Maths?
    I see people focusing on HL students and students that are WAYY able to get a C2 MINIMUM in their OL Exam. But what about us? What about the people who are just weak at math? Is getting us to pass our Maths not important? The students they focus on are the students that WILL pass... they simply want them to pass with high Bs and As... but what about the ones failing? Is it more important to get a student to pass with an A2 than a student to pass with a D3?

    It's equally important. The purpose of the maths course should be to bring out and build upon the potential of students in the best way possible. If your doing badly because of bad teachers (and it does sound like bad teachers, if I'm reading you right?) then the system is failing you. If one of your friends is getting an A1 in Honours without hardly trying then the system is failing them, too. In both cases the potential of the students is not being used.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    Well, unlike most of you, i've no constructive or intellectual comments to contribute, as i'm merely one of the scapegoats who was FORCED into doing a completely DIFFERENT course, and who is surely about to fail her maths, and have to waste a year of her life.

    I'm gutted my school is past of the 24 schools taking on the P.M and i'm disgusted with the fact that a half-arsed half-complete course is being forced on us. It's all very well, for some of you to be talking about how simple PM is and how it's an advantage for the current students FORCED into taking it, but from the looks of it, the majority of you in favor of it are way past your Leaving Cert years, so wth would you know about how we feel? I'm one of those 'cliche' students, if you'd like to call it that, that simply cant stand Maths. I have no interest for it, I have no patience for it, I see no reason in learning half of the things on the course. I was in Ordinary Level, and had a hope of passing it, despite my serious case of procrastinating and bad memory, but now? Now i'm sure i'm gonna fail Foundation. And why is THAT? Because of Project Maths. I was under the impression ONLY Paper 2 would be Project Maths, so I went and learned off the chapters that I needed for Paper 1 off by heart and now? Now it's good for nothing. When I ask any teacher for advice, and what the difference in the syllabus between Foundation and Ordinary is, they aren't ABLE to answer me. As a matter of fact, most say 'it's the exact same thing as ordinary, just phrased differently! The questions are identical! The numbers in the answe4r are just smaller." when I tell them i'm going to fail unless someone tells me what to study and what the differences are, they LAUGH and tell me "Ah, sure you wont pet, you'll be grand on the day of the leaving". Well THANK YOU for the wise words.
    I asked my teacher on monday after I found out Paper 1 is P.M as well, what to study and he told me to study both books. You know what that is? It's 700 pages. What about my other subjects? Hell, nvm that.. what about the FACT that 700 pages isnt doable in 7 days? That's 100 pages per day, add or take a few dozen.
    We were given a list of the chapters we should study, followed by a 'but anything in the book can come up, cause we simply do NOT know'. Well that's great. So what about set questions? You know, those questions that were always GUARANTEED they would come up? Oh that's right... nobody knows about that either! So I ask you this... WHAT IS THE POINT OF IMPLEMENTING SOMETHING IF YOU CANNOT GIVE YOUR STUDENTS THE SUPPORT THEY NEED?

    I see people focusing on HL students and students that are WAYY able to get a C2 MINIMUM in their OL Exam. But what about us? What about the people who are just weak at math? Is getting us to pass our Maths not important? The students they focus on are the students that WILL pass... they simply want them to pass with high Bs and As... but what about the ones failing? Is it more important to get a student to pass with an A2 than a student to pass with a D3?

    3 people passed the OL Maths Mock Paper in my class.THREE. 3 out of 27? 28? Now I understand that it's our own fault we procrastinate but this is beyond that. It's lack of support, lack of attention, and downright lack of resources available to help their students.

    So I hear the NCCA Sample Papers are a joke? I guess I just wasted a few hours answering the few questions that I felt I could get some attempt marks at. Funnily enough, my Maths teacher is still using those sample papers to teach the class.

    You know what the worst thing is? Some bits of the PM actually seem to rely on common sense, and seem easy. Yet after 4 years of being taught a certain syllabus, and doing Math in a specific way, I just CANT adapt to that way of thinking... especially not in 7 days.

    So cheers to whoever decided to screw up a year of our lives. I cant get over the fact they decided to take a gamble with OUR future. OURS. As if maths was worth more than us passing the damn LC. I just hope and pray that I can find ACTUAL notes on the internet that will help, since I know I wont be getting help from anywhere else. Shameful.
    It is shameful that you are so distressed so near to the exam .yes everybody is talking about the higher maths students (about 400 students) in the pilot schools and people are forgetting that there is 1600 students doing Ord maths.That have one sample paper 1 and about 4 sample paper 2 of which 2 are the discredited NCCA papers .
    Ignore all the pious platitudes of the pro project maths lobby they are either people who have never taught maths or are in some ivory tower in 3rd level .
    If its ok with you I will send you over a way to survive the LC project maths .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    If I understand you correctly, your problem is firstly, that you changed into Project Maths after some time in the normal LC Maths course and so are thrown off, and secondly that you haven't done enough work and so are having trouble.

    In fairness, the second isn't a fault of Project Maths, rather the unfortunate result of you assuming you only had to study half the course, and the first sounds ambiguous. Could you expand upon how long you've been doing Project Maths?



    It's equally important. The purpose of the maths course should be to bring out and build upon the potential of students in the best way possible. If your doing badly because of bad teachers (and it does sound like bad teachers, if I'm reading you right?) then the system is failing you. If one of your friends is getting an A1 in Honours without hardly trying then the system is failing them, too. In both cases the potential of the students is not being used.
    Project maths will fail! Reason the same teachers who could not teach maths when they had a fully developed syllabus, 17 years of past papers excellent text books and lots of resources are now supposed to do better with a draft incomplete syllabus, one actual past paper and no text books and lots of useless information from the NCCA .
    It could only happen in Ireland and nobody will be held responsible !


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    I was in Ordinary Level, and had a hope of passing it, despite my serious case of procrastinating and bad memory, but now? Now i'm sure i'm gonna fail Foundation. And why is THAT? Because of Project Maths.
    Eh?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Project maths insists that maths must be relevant Ordinary level students could not care less they just want to pass and forget maths forever .
    maths does not have to be revelent it can just be pure .You don't have to measure a tree to study Trig!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    If I understand you correctly, your problem is firstly, that you changed into Project Maths after some time in the normal LC Maths course and so are thrown off, and secondly that you haven't done enough work and so are having trouble.

    In fairness, the second isn't a fault of Project Maths, rather the unfortunate result of you assuming you only had to study half the course, and the first sounds ambiguous. Could you expand upon how long you've been doing Project Maths?



    It's equally important. The purpose of the maths course should be to bring out and build upon the potential of students in the best way possible. If your doing badly because of bad teachers (and it does sound like bad teachers, if I'm reading you right?) then the system is failing you. If one of your friends is getting an A1 in Honours without hardly trying then the system is failing them, too. In both cases the potential of the students is not being used.
    Project will not exist in 3 years time the Minister already wants to abondon it


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    For all the talk of Project Maths doing away with rote learning (and I don't for a second think it does anyway), there is the point to be made that being proficient at maths does in fact involve learning and remembering a large quantity of material and being able to perform similar calculations on a fairly regular basis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    Guys would anyone know
    (a) where i could get a good christmas tree?
    (b) where i can get a correct definition of the Empirical Rule? (preferably from someone who can spell!!!!)
    It's time the dinosaurs left the maths classrooms of Ireland- don't criticise what you don't understand!:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    The Dinosaurs will never leave the classroom .It is the only place they are safe . Therefore there will be no improvement in maths because the fault is not in the Syllabus( the old syllabus was fine just needed a few small changes) nor in the students but in the genius at the front of the room who in most cases has no qualification to teach maths!
    countdown to 806 maths next thursday and friday for maths advice


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    Hope he covers the Empirical Rule!!!! Maybe a plug for the Christmas trees too:) More of the usual nonsense I'd say!! At least we are spared the awful spelling on the radio!!!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    Maths advice on Countdown 806 last night was excellent .I have texted the link to the podcast to my LC class .
    I have told them to listen again on thurs and Friday of next week.
    If only all teachers could communicate like this .
    Tip
    If you are feeling stressed I believe aroma therapy works really well. so the guy on 2fm said last night .
    Why are you looking for a Christmas tree in June ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭PurpleVintage


    @ Eliot Rosewater
    Well of course the procrastinating part is my fault. I have never, nor would I ever imply otherwise. The fact is, I was more than able to pass Ordinary Level, even if it was with a D, and that went down to a high chance at failing Foundation. To the point where i'm being told to just take Ordinary since "You're better off failing at Ordinary than at Foundation anyway". Great.
    I can't speak for all teachers or all students when I say this... my Maths teacher is a very nice guy, but the way he teaches is just not doing it for me, and at LEAST 75% of the class. Out of the people I regularly talk to in the class, and ever asked if they think he's a good Maths teacher, only one ever said yes. Goes to show i'm not just nitpicking here. As I said before, 3 passed the mocks. That ALSO goes to show that it's not just procrastinating that's having an impact on the results, as many of the people who failed are very studious, and pretty average at maths.

    @ bluewolf
    Not sure if you deliberately missed the point, or if i'm speaking Gibberish, but what I was hoping that sentence meant was: Even though I suffer from extremely bad memory, and procrastinate a lot, I still knew I could pass Ordinary, or at least get a very high grade in Foundation. Now, with Project Maths... I don't think i'm even able to pass the Foundation.

    @ Permabear
    As I said before, I am very weak at Maths. But not weak enough to fail my normal Foundation Maths. Since I went from a good-chance of passing Ordinary to huge-chance of failing Foundation, I think that speaks volumes on its own.
    And yes, I know that project Maths was apparently supposed to be all that... but it FAILED, and failed BADLY from the looks of the Mock results of my year group. It's all very nice to be changing around things, and trying to make it more user-friendly (or so they say) but not in our last year of school. ESPECIALLY not if they dont even have the resources available to support their students! Why didnt they simply change it for 1st years, and leave all other year groups with normal maths? That way nobody would be sacrificed imho.
    Thanks for the encouraging words! It's kinda nice to know that at least someone thinks that I still have a chance at passing.

    @ jimkekk
    Thank you very much for the support, your previous posts helped me realize a lot of things about Project Maths, and if it weren't for you (I believe it was you who said it first) I would still be studying my NCCA sample papers.
    Well, I really dont like bothering people, and normally I would say no... but i'm so scared and desperate right now that any help whatsoever is extremely appreciated. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    Jim,
    Just read most of your posts! Interesting! Have to disagree with you re J Brennan though- heard the podcast then looked at the notes on 2fm website and they are riddled with errors. Also, saw him on the frontline tv show and thought he was appalling- a dinosaur in the classroom, exactly what we need rid of!! Sorry about the rant!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    Anybody be able to help me with outliers??


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    TommyDoyle wrote: »
    Jim,
    Just read most of your posts! Interesting! Have to disagree with you re J Brennan though- heard the podcast then looked at the notes on 2fm website and they are riddled with errors. Also, saw him on the frontline tv show and thought he was appalling- a dinosaur in the classroom, exactly what we need rid of!! Sorry about the rant!
    I have to disagree with you the notes were fantastic no errors that I coluld see you obviously have a problem with JB .The quick way to do the standard deviation is brilliant and the advice on the delta x method for the product rule is fantastic my students love this
    Did you know that hundreds of students attend his grind classes every week he is obviously doing something right .
    what are you doing? How many students do you have ?
    It really is a bad idea to personalise your views this guy is a legend .
    He has helped thousands of students what have you done ?
    Chill out try the aroma therapy !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    @ Eliot Rosewater
    Well of course the procrastinating part is my fault. I have never, nor would I ever imply otherwise. The fact is, I was more than able to pass Ordinary Level, even if it was with a D, and that went down to a high chance at failing Foundation. To the point where i'm being told to just take Ordinary since "You're better off failing at Ordinary than at Foundation anyway". Great.
    I can't speak for all teachers or all students when I say this... my Maths teacher is a very nice guy, but the way he teaches is just not doing it for me, and at LEAST 75% of the class. Out of the people I regularly talk to in the class, and ever asked if they think he's a good Maths teacher, only one ever said yes. Goes to show i'm not just nitpicking here. As I said before, 3 passed the mocks. That ALSO goes to show that it's not just procrastinating that's having an impact on the results, as many of the people who failed are very studious, and pretty average at maths.

    @ bluewolf
    Not sure if you deliberately missed the point, or if i'm speaking Gibberish, but what I was hoping that sentence meant was: Even though I suffer from extremely bad memory, and procrastinate a lot, I still knew I could pass Ordinary, or at least get a very high grade in Foundation. Now, with Project Maths... I don't think i'm even able to pass the Foundation.

    @ Permabear
    As I said before, I am very weak at Maths. But not weak enough to fail my normal Foundation Maths. Since I went from a good-chance of passing Ordinary to huge-chance of failing Foundation, I think that speaks volumes on its own.
    And yes, I know that project Maths was apparently supposed to be all that... but it FAILED, and failed BADLY from the looks of the Mock results of my year group. It's all very nice to be changing around things, and trying to make it more user-friendly (or so they say) but not in our last year of school. ESPECIALLY not if they dont even have the resources available to support their students! Why didnt they simply change it for 1st years, and leave all other year groups with normal maths? That way nobody would be sacrificed imho.
    Thanks for the encouraging words! It's kinda nice to know that at least someone thinks that I still have a chance at passing.

    @ jimkekk
    Thank you very much for the support, your previous posts helped me realize a lot of things about Project Maths, and if it weren't for you (I believe it was you who said it first) I would still be studying my NCCA sample papers.
    Well, I really dont like bothering people, and normally I would say no... but i'm so scared and desperate right now that any help whatsoever is extremely appreciated. :)
    Hi
    I will have good advice on PM over the weekend can send as a PDF if required.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael Collins


    jimkekk wrote: »
    ...It really is a bad idea to personalise your views this guy is a legend .
    He has helped thousands of students what have you done ?

    Just out of curiosity: do you know, or are you yourself, John Brennan?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    Just out of curiosity: do you know, or are you yourself, John Brennan?
    I was a student of JB in the 80's . I now work at 3rd level but do a lot of leaving cert grinds .
    Jonnie B is a legend in our class we had 6 students who did acturial studies . I can remember the results of our class 12 A1 ,6 A2 .Nobody got a B or a C . That was the real LC (1988) .
    He has helped so many students .If he says PM is not a good idea ,it's not a good idea !
    I won't have a bad word said about Jonnie B he was my teacher for 5 years so do not call him a dinosaur!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    Jim,
    Like Michael Collins I'm starting to have my doubts about your posts too!!
    Having read your posts, you are starting to resemble something of an outlier!!!!!! Here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055768798&page=7 you say you have been teaching maths for over 40 years but here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056283967 you say your sister did her Leaving Cert in 2010!!!!! Does mean there is approx 44 years between you and your sister? Definitely more than 3 standard deviations from the mean wouldn’t you agree???!!!! Can we believe anything you have been saying?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    "I do not like to give tips but first principals (his spelling!!!!!!) seems to be popular with the examiners the ones that have not been asked so far are y = Cosx , sqrt(x)......."

    Just a sample of the notes on the 2fm website that you say have "no errors" even though these came up in 2004 and 2001 respectively. It's just totally irresponsible and lazy to trot these same notes out to students year after year. The best is his definition of the Empirical Rule though, every time I read it I cringe. God help the "hundreds" of students if this is what they're getting! Legend indeed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    TommyDoyle wrote: »
    Jim,
    Like Michael Collins I'm starting to have my doubts about your posts too!!
    Having read your posts, you are starting to resemble something of an outlier!!!!!! Here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055768798&page=7 you say you have been teaching maths for over 40 years but here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056283967 you say your sister did her Leaving Cert in 2010!!!!! Does mean there is approx 44 years between you and your sister? Definitely more than 3 standard deviations from the mean wouldn’t you agree???!!!! Can we believe anything you have been saying?

    My sister did do her Leaving cert maths last year at the the age of 56 as a mature student !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    TommyDoyle wrote: »
    "I do not like to give tips but first principals (his spelling!!!!!!) seems to be popular with the examiners the ones that have not been asked so far are y = Cosx , sqrt(x)......."

    Just a sample of the notes on the 2fm website that you say have "no errors" even though these came up in 2004 and 2001 respectively. It's just totally irresponsible and lazy to trot these same notes out to students year after year. The best is his definition of the Empirical Rule though, every time I read it I cringe. God help the "hundreds" of students if this is what they're getting! Legend indeed.
    He is still a legend what have you done ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 jimkekk


    jimkekk wrote: »
    He is still a legend what have you done ?

    This thread is getting very personal and I think it is better for everybody (including me) to move on. At the moment it is the students that are important and nothing should be said or written that will upset them in any way.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 TommyDoyle


    Now, I fully agree with Michael Collins!! Would the real JB please stand up!!!! Pathetic to read all the posts knowing this. Don't think it counts if you're the one calling yourself a "legend".;)


Advertisement