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Full rights for the LGBT community.

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Comments

  • #1862
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    It is clear that the majority of gays are not out even in these supposedly enlightened times.
    The majority of people get married or are have heterosexual relationships.
    So it follows that the majority of gays who are getting married are pretending to be straight and are suppressing their homosexuality.
    Why would they have sexual relationships with the opposite sex when they are not attracted to them?
    Hmmm.
    Heterosexual sex is a good way of becoming the parent of a kid and having a family?
    Would these people be motivated to be homophobic and opposed to gay marriage and gay lifestyles in general?
    You bet.

    This is just confused nonsense , the reason most gay people stayed in the closet is because of the clear and obvious homophobia exhibited by mainstream society.

    And as that homophobia lessens so too will people saying in the 'closet'.


  • #1863
    jimdublin15
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭jimdublin15


    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    Go get your own. I am confident that if you did a study you would find evidence that supports my view.



    Why would gays pretend to be straight and get married unless they want to have families and kids and heterosexual marriage was the best way to achieve that goal without being found out?



    Go find your own. I am confident that when the data comes in my view will be proven.

    In other words you have no data to backup your wide sweeping statements and generalizations about gay & other LGBT people. I mean that's fine, your fully entitled to have a feelings and/or an opinion without fact. Just don't present "your theory and feelings" about gays as facts.

    Look I mean I for one do not believe in Homo or Heterosexuals, never have understood and never will. I simply just can't Imagen it, seems freakish to me. But I would never present my belief of this as a stern fact.


  • #1864
    jimdublin15
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭jimdublin15


    On the topic equal rights I stand by the idea that:

    Go to work, Pay bills, Buy a house make each other happy or miserable, have kids or don't, get a divorce, or stay together. Be you two men, two women, or a man and a woman. I don't see a problem.


  • #1865
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    Go get your own. I am confident that if you did a study you would find evidence that supports my view..

    This is a nonsense. You made a claim, it's for you to back it up.
    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    Why would gays pretend to be straight and get married unless they want to have families and kids and heterosexual marriage was the best way to achieve that goal without being found out?.

    Denial, fear of family reaction, fear of homophobia.....
    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    Go find your own. I am confident that when the data comes in my view will be proven.

    You made a claim, it's for you to back it up or withdraw it.

    You stated "the majority of gay people remain in the closet in order to get married so they can have a family and kids". Where are the studies and data to back this up?


  • #1866
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    jimdublin15 wrote: »
    Look I mean I for one do not believe in Homo or Heterosexuals, never have understood and never will. I simply just can't Imagen it, seems freakish to me. But I would never present my belief of this as a stern fact.

    Mod: This is a serious forum for serious Political posts. From the charter:
    This forum is for discussion and debate, we will not tolerate soapboxing. If you are here to "shout everyone down" with your opinions, we will see you as a negative contributor to the forum and will take appropriate action.

    Denying the very existence of human sexuality and/or the scientific terms is, as opinions go, like denying the existence of gravity, or not believing in Hummingbirds. Sure, youre entitled to your opinion, there very well may be a valid basis for that opinion, but if you want to discuss that opinion from a scientific point of view Im sure youll find a forum like Biology or Sex and Sexuality where such things may be discussed.

    But for the political discussion herein, we can take it as a fact that both homo- and hetero-sexual people exist and the question is now how we deal with their rights. If you are unwilling to accept that basic premise then please dont post in this thread anymore


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  • #1867
    jimdublin15
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭jimdublin15


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Mod: This is a serious forum for serious Political posts. From the charter:



    Denying the very existence of human sexuality and/or the scientific terms is, as opinions go, like denying the existence of gravity, or not believing in Hummingbirds. Sure, youre entitled to your opinion, there very well may be a valid basis for that opinion, but if you want to discuss that opinion from a scientific point of view Im sure youll find a forum like Biology or Sex and Sexuality where such things may be discussed.

    But for the political discussion herein, we can take it as a fact that both homo- and hetero-sexual people exist and the question is now how we deal with their rights. If you are unwilling to accept that basic premise then please dont post in this thread anymore

    Sorry for the upset will keep to topic, the context was merely as an example towards a poster on the difference of having a personal feeling and/or stating a fact. The reason for it was the other poster was making some sweeping statements of his own beliefs without offering facts. Again no upset or change in subject was my intent and I fully respect others have different feelings.

    On the topic equal rights as mentioned I stand by the idea that we should all have equal rights.

    Go to work, Pay bills, Buy a house make each other happy or miserable, have kids or don't, get a divorce, or stay together. Be you two men, two women, or a man and a woman.

    I don't see a problem, I don't see or understand why we can't all have equal rights, or what damage it would do if we all did have equal rights. It just seems more than fair to me that we all have them.


  • #1868
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,539 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    @DavidRamsay99... I believe that the points you raised were relevant in the past, as people read/understood how society dealt with the issue of gay people and marriage then, and not relevant to how our fellow gay citizens should have equal access to Civil Marriage on a par with our straight citizens. Be that as it may, maybe you would like to read and answer the questions below.

    Do you believe that homophobia is solely down to gay people who have married within the straight lifestyle?

    Do you think that Religious/social/familial factors may have had bearing on decisions made by gay people to marry opposite sex partners, in the style of straight people?

    Do you think that gay people who married as I've described above in line with the societal ethos were:

    A. honest or living a lie; and

    B. as a result are being homophobic to continue to "hide" that they are gay, because of the effects of their coming out would have on their wives/husbands and/or kids?


  • #1869
    DavidRamsay99
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DavidRamsay99


    aloyisious wrote: »
    @DavidRamsay99... I believe that the points you raised were relevant in the past, as people read/understood how society dealt with the issue of gay people and marriage then, and not relevant to how our fellow gay citizens should have equal access to Civil Marriage on a par with our straight citizens. Be that as it may, maybe you would like to read and answer the questions below.

    Do you believe that homophobia is solely down to gay people who have married within the straight lifestyle?

    Do you think that Religious/social/familial factors may have had bearing on decisions made by gay people to marry opposite sex partners, in the style of straight people?

    Do you think that gay people who married as I've described above in line with the societal ethos were:

    A. honest or living a lie; and

    B. as a result are being homophobic to continue to "hide" that they are gay, because of the effects of their coming out would have on their wives/husbands and/or kids?

    When you make a life commitment you can't expect to go the distance without entering it 100%.
    I have no doubt the majority of gay people make a conscious decision to pretend to be straight for the purpose of having a family and children.
    They totally subsume themselves for the sake of having children.
    Which is why homophobia is so hardline and inflexible.
    They feel that if homosexuality is ever normalized then they whole edifice of their carefully constructed reality will begin to crack.
    I believe it is less about societal pressure and more about an internal struggle.
    Straight people have no reason to be anti-gay.
    It is closet gays who oppress other gays.


  • #1870
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    When you make a life commitment you can't expect to go the distance without entering it 100%.
    I have no doubt the majority of gay people make a conscious decision to pretend to be straight for the purpose of having a family and children.
    .
    Where is your evidence?
    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    They totally subsume themselves for the sake of having children.
    Which is why homophobia is so hardline and inflexible.
    They feel that if homosexuality is ever normalized then they whole edifice of their carefully constructed reality will begin to crack.
    I believe it is less about societal pressure and more about an internal struggle..

    Where is your evidence?
    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    Straight people have no reason to be anti-gay.
    It is closet gays who oppress other gays.


    Nonsense.


  • #1871
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    When you make a life commitment you can't expect to go the distance without entering it 100%.
    I have no doubt the majority of gay people make a conscious decision to pretend to be straight for the purpose of having a family and children.
    They totally subsume themselves for the sake of having children.
    Which is why homophobia is so hardline and inflexible.
    They feel that if homosexuality is ever normalized then they whole edifice of their carefully constructed reality will begin to crack.
    I believe it is less about societal pressure and more about an internal struggle.
    Straight people have no reason to be anti-gay.
    It is closet gays who oppress other gays.


    And closet Jews oppressed Jews in Germany , and brainwashed women denied other women the vote , the good old self hate motive .I have seen a lot of rubbish theories in my time but this bunkum tops the lot .

    Talk about victim blaming.


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  • #1872
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    DavidRamsay99 wrote: »
    I have no doubt the majority of gay people make a conscious decision to pretend to be straight for the purpose of having a family and children.
    They totally subsume themselves for the sake of having children.
    Which is why homophobia is so hardline and inflexible.
    They feel that if homosexuality is ever normalized then they whole edifice of their carefully constructed reality will begin to crack.
    I believe it is less about societal pressure and more about an internal struggle.
    Straight people have no reason to be anti-gay.
    It is closet gays who oppress other gays.

    Mod note: From the charter:
    When offering fact, please offer relevant linkage, or at least source. Simply saying "a quick search on google...." is often, but not always, enough. If you do not do this upon posting, then please be willing to do so on request.

    You have asserted this position several times without any reference to statistics etc. You say it is your honest belief and I'm sure it is. However, this forum is not a place for people to simply assert their beliefs ad nauseum without advancing the argument.

    I think you've been given a fair amount of leeway as regards your posts, but if you are going to continue along the line of this most gay people are in hetrosexual relationships and therefore are closet homophobes argument then please provide statistics or else don't post again.


  • #1873
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod: Ok, this thread has run its course. If anyone wants to reopen it with real debate please PM myself or another mod. Needless to say, if you want to discuss the holocaust, this is not the forum for it


This discussion has been closed.
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