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Life after Ag.Science...

2

Comments

  • #32
    theowen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭theowen


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Yes it probably would, but my point is the course is about agriculture not about butchering practices. Students practical experiences centred around farms not abbatoirs.

    How would you feel if the next question was about the merits of loin chops v. shoulder chops?
    I'm sure I could get 3 points out of somewhere:rolleyes: Though I see your point. It highlights the need for an over haul in the syllabus. There would be up roar if they asked something in history for example that wasn't on the course, but in ag sciece everyone's like, meh..


  • #33
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    fairyprincessx wrote: »
    ooh then I would've gotten it right :D oh and i thing the word you're looking for is "serves" :)
    Oh, I know a lot of words for it ... real honest country words at that! :D

    I was trying to keep it fit for the rarified realms of boards.ie ...


  • #34
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    fairyprincessx wrote: »
    ooh then I would've gotten it right :D oh and i thing the word you're looking for is "serves" :)


    my students aren't that polite...
    theowen wrote: »
    I'm sure I could get 3 points out of somewhere:rolleyes: Though I see your point. It highlights the need for an over haul in the syllabus. There would be up roar if they asked something in history for example that wasn't on the course, but in ag sciece everyone's like, meh..

    while the syllabus is outdated, that's no reason to have stuff like that on the paper. you examine the syllabus not what you think should be on the syllabus. It highlights a need for more careful proof reading more than anything else. But you're right, it wouldn't happen in another subject. And your answer for that question looks fine to me too.

    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Oh, I know a lot of words for it ... real honest country words at that! :D

    I was trying to keep it fit for the rarified realms of boards.ie ...

    'mounts' , 'rises' and 'gets up on' are common in these parts. It's not always clear whether the men are talking about women or cows though. Maybe both.:D


  • #35
    simbathelion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭simbathelion


    Im confused now one ye saying raddling harness is for when a ewe carrying triplets and another is sayin its the dye yoke on a ram tat marks the ewe? which one is it?


  • #36
    Screwedforlc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Screwedforlc


    For the experiment in soil could you use the texture experiment in a graduated cylinder and the humus/organic matter rises to thee top and calculate the percent or do you have to use the burn experiment ?


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  • #37
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    simbathelion wrote: »
    Im confused now one ye saying raddling harness is for when a ewe carrying triplets and another is sayin its the dye yoke on a ram tat marks the ewe? which one is it?

    It's the one that marks the ewe....


  • #38
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Screwedforlc wrote: »
    For the experiment in soil could you use the texture experiment in a graduated cylinder and the humus/organic matter rises to thee top and calculate the percent or do you have to use the burn experiment ?

    I would say the burn experiment, won't know if the other would be acceptable until I see the marking scheme.


  • #39
    !!!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭!!!


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Very clever :pac: It reads like a riddle when you put it like that! I guess that makes it a poorly phrased question.

    Oh I hope I'm right!

    I have never in my life heard of the 20% thing... obviously that is probably the right answer as my answer was basically, as you said, a riddle, and not something that would be on the ag.science course...!

    I still don't understand this 20% thing though.


  • #40
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    'mounts' , 'rises' and 'gets up on' are common in these parts.
    Ah bless, they *are* being fairly polite in front of the lady teacher! :D
    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It's not always clear whether the men are talking about women or cows though. Maybe both.:D
    In the country, such terminology is pretty much interchangeable tbh.

    Indeed, I can remember a friend of mine being threatened by his father that he would fit him with a raddling harness if he didn't mend his roving ... eye.

    Probably why I remember the term! :pac:


  • #41
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    !!! wrote: »
    Oh I hope I'm right!

    I have never in my life heard of the 20% thing... obviously that is probably the right answer as my answer was basically, as you said, a riddle, and not something that would be on the ag.science course...!

    I still don't understand this 20% thing though.

    If you've got say 100 cows (we'll stick to something handy) in your herd, all the same age, that means that after 5 or 6 years they will all have to be replaced at the same time. If each one of those cows had a calf that year, it will be at least 2 years before they would be producing milk so the farmer would have a dry year or he would have to buy in replacements - 100 cattle, very expensive. So the idea is you stagger replacements by having your cows all different ages and replace 20% (ideally the oldest, the ones with reduced milk yield, fertility problems, illness and disease etc etc) each year with heifer calves. So replacement is constant and it doesn't all happen at the same time.

    I suppose 20% came about over time where say 10% would mean it would take 10 years to replace a whole herd and cows only have a milking span of 5-6 years on average. Any more than that means it would be too expensive and you would be getting 3-4 year olds which were still at their peak. Replacing cattle over a 5 year period means you are replacing them after they start to decline and the farmer gets the best out of each cow.


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  • #42
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Ah bless, they *are* being fairly polite in front of the lady teacher! :D

    In the country, such terminology is pretty much interchangeable tbh.

    Indeed, I can remember a friend of mine being threatened by his father that he would fit him with a raddling harness if he didn't mend his roving ... eye.

    Probably why I remember the term! :pac:

    Oh i've heard a lot worse but it would not get through the boards swear filter!

    I think you could be onto something there with the raddling harness ... PI is that way ----> :D


  • #43
    !!!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭!!!


    But it said how much of the culled herd would he have to replace (I think, too lazy to check)

    He would be replacing 100% of the culled herd.


  • #44
    Screwedforlc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Screwedforlc


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    If you've got say 100 cows (we'll stick to something handy) in your herd, all the same age, that means that after 5 or 6 years they will all have to be replaced at the same time. If each one of those cows had a calf that year, it will be at least 2 years before they would be producing milk so the farmer would have a dry year or he would have to buy in replacements - 100 cattle, very expensive. So the idea is you stagger replacements by having your cows all different ages and replace 20% (ideally the oldest, the ones with reduced milk yield, fertility problems, illness and disease etc etc) each year with heifer calves. So replacement is constant and it doesn't all happen at the same time.

    I suppose 20% came about over time where say 10% would mean it would take 10 years to replace a whole herd and cows only have a milking span of 5-6 years on average. Any more than that means it would be too expensive and you would be getting 3-4 year olds which were still at their peak. Replacing cattle over a 5 year period means you are replacing them after they start to decline and the farmer gets the best out of each cow.

    The usual ans is 20 percent but based on the question i'm fairly sure its less then 30 percent as the farmer had 30 percent pure breeds which are for diary section but all of them won't be female so just between 20 and 30


  • #45
    Screwedforlc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Screwedforlc


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    I would say the burn experiment, won't know if the other would be acceptable until I see the marking scheme.

    That experiment also separates humus so does humus count for all the organic matter, when would marking scheme be out ?


  • #46
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    !!! wrote: »
    But it said how much of the culled herd would he have to replace (I think, too lazy to check)

    He would be replacing 100% of the culled herd.

    Which goes back to the question being poorly phrased. It should probably read 'What percentage of the herd should be culled and replaced annually?' or something to that effect.

    Screwedforlc wrote: »
    The usual ans is 20 percent but based on the question i'm fairly sure its less then 30 percent as the farmer had 30 percent pure breeds which are for diary section but all of them won't be female so just between 20 and 30

    ya, I take your point. It won't be clear what they are looking for until I see the marking scheme. However it doesn't say that the crossbreeds aren't used for milk production so that would mean about 50% of all calves born are female. So it'll be interesting to see what is accepted.


  • #47
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Screwedforlc wrote: »
    That experiment also separates humus so does humus count for all the organic matter, when would marking scheme be out ?

    you won't see the marking scheme until august after the results are out. That experiement does indeed separate the humus but humus/organic matter is not normally calculated using that experiment


  • #48
    Screwedforlc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Screwedforlc


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Which goes back to the question being poorly phrased. It should probably read 'What percentage of the herd should be culled and replaced annually?' or something to that effect.




    ya, I take your point. It won't be clear what they are looking for until I see the marking scheme. However it doesn't say that the crossbreeds aren't used for milk production so that would mean about 50% of all calves born are female. So it'll be interesting to see what is accepted.

    Yes but pollys or continental breeds aren't usually accepted for diary breeds so i'd say you could assume they weren't going to involved in the culling


  • #49
    Screwedforlc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Screwedforlc


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    you won't see the marking scheme until august after the results are out. That experiement does indeed separate the humus but humus/organic matter is not normally calculated using that experiment

    I don't care if its the normal way to do it or not as long as it works...Thanks any way


  • #50
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Oh i've heard a lot worse but it would not get through the boards swear filter!

    I think you could be onto something there with the raddling harness ... PI is that way ----> :D
    S & S is t'other way! >_>

    Oh feck it, I was trying to keep this reasonably polite, but this one is too good not to share, and presumably most people around here are adults or on the cusp of adulthood.

    Rainbow's comment here:
    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It's not always clear whether the men are talking about women or cows though. Maybe both.:D
    about the interchangeability with which certain terms tend to be used reminded me of the comment we got from the same lad after a night out when he had left us at the end of the night to, eh, drive a young lady home.

    Ofc, next morning, nosey buggers that we were, we demanded to know how things had progressed, to which we received the classic reply:

    "Ah, sure, she wasn't on for breeding, but she's a dab hand at the milking!"

    >_>



    I'll go now! :o


  • #51
    Healium
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭Healium


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    :confused:

    Isn't a raddling harness that yoke with dye which they put on a ram so that he marks each ewe as he ... eh ... "marks" her?
    Whey! I thought my answer was wrong :p


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  • #52
    simbathelion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭simbathelion


    Att: Rainbowtrout,

    As an Agricultural Science teacher, did you think the paper was ok, There's about 10 in my class and not one single person in our class was a bit happy with the paper. I was wondering would you think the current Agricultural teachers need to be updated a bit more, although you personally seem great, feck I wish you were our teacher, you seem to have unbelievable patience, you daily listen to our questions and have no problem directing us in the right way, Jez wish it was you who set todays paper.


  • #53
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    simbathelion wrote: »
    Att: Rainbowtrout,

    As an Agricultural Science teacher, did you think the paper was ok, There's about 10 in my class and not one single person in our class was a bit happy with the paper. I was wondering would you think the current Agricultural teachers need to be updated a bit more, although you personally seem great, feck I wish you were our teacher, you seem to have unbelievable patience, you daily listen to our questions and have no problem directing us in the right way, Jez wish it was you who set todays paper.

    I thought some of the questions were ok, Soil and the experiments were fair. There are sticky questions every year on the paper, but normally they tend to be confined to one question, but this year seemed to be spread throughout making it hard for a student to get a full six questions (particularly for those going for an A1). I doubt many students will be happy with that paper to be honest. I spoke to one or two other ag teachers this evening and they weren't happy with it.

    The course and syllabus as we all know is terribly outdated. However even though the syllabus is outdated that is what should be examined and there seems to be a tendency in ag science to just lash in a question regardless of this. I have never used the term indicator species or seen it anywhere and while the question itself from my interpretation of it was not difficult, I know it would throw a lot of students off.

    There are always hard questions on HL LC papers to separate out the top students from the rest and that's the way it should be, but putting on topics that students have never heard of is not fair and it just suggests there are no clear boundaries to the syllabus.

    I will have to go away at some stage and do out notes/definitions on indicator species, freemartin condition, index of calving difficulty to add to my notes that I already give out.


    As for your comment on Ag teachers needing to be updated. Personally I know a lot of the Ag teachers, we are a small group. There are plenty of excellent, knowledgeable people out there, but if the goalposts are being constantly moved in what is being asked on the paper every year, how can a teacher possibly keep up when the first time they see something on the course is when it appears on the paper? Obviously that isn't much help to the students, but it was the same last year in the genetics question, it asked for a definition of a lethal gene : it's not in any book and not part of the course. It was raised in an earlier post that if this happened in any other subject, there would be war over the paper but in ag there just seems to be ... apathy I guess... and that information gets absorbed into the syllabus and that's not the way it should happen.


  • #54
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    S & S is t'other way! >_>


    My raddle comes with a whip! :pac:



    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Rainbow's comment here:
    about the interchangeability with which certain terms tend to be used reminded me of the comment we got from the same lad after a night out when he had left us at the end of the night to, eh, drive a young lady home.

    Ofc, next morning, nosey buggers that we were, we demanded to know how things had progressed, to which we received the classic reply:

    "Ah, sure, she wasn't on for breeding, but she's a dab hand at the milking!"

    >_>



    I'll go now! :o


    Classic! :D


  • #55
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Thought you guys might appreciate this, it's a blog by an Ag Science teacher. I know this guy from college and would respect his opinion. Also if any of you have ever used the notes from farmnet you will be familiar with his work. I think he does a pretty good summary and will perhaps let you see that frustration is widespread




    http://blog.sccscience.com/2010/06/exam-reaction-agricultural-science.html


  • #56
    Yahooaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭Yahooaccount


    I looked at the paper and thought it was an utter disgrace, considering some of the questions took me a hard time to even find on the internet!

    I e-mailed the SEC to complain using this e-mail : examiners@examinations.ie .


  • #57
    user12
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭user12


    Rainbowtrout....can you please help me with the question

    I know you can answer this question without looking at my exam but I am really stressing about it!!

    I did an OK project,sheep project was good but the silage wasnt it was only a few pages,if you were to take a guess how many marks do you think I would of got for my project?..I had all my experiments and stuff....just a guess thanks!

    And this is for everyone out there am sure!...I DID A HORRIBLE PAPER!!...I was never anygood an Ag Science but this was a step too far!!...I attempted every question, purely talking ****e the hole way through it,i knew nothin at all!!!...but i wrote a good bit of common sense.....so with my project and an exam that i did really bad in,what do you reckon my chances of passin are?...I understand you havnt a clue without looking!

    Will the paper be marked easier do you think?..but even if they change the marking sceme, I dont think I got anythin right so how can they give me marks for a wrong answer!!:(:(:(:(


  • #58
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    user12 wrote: »
    Rainbowtrout....can you please help me with the question

    I know you can answer this question without looking at my exam but I am really stressing about it!!

    I did an OK project,sheep project was good but the silage wasnt it was only a few pages,if you were to take a guess how many marks do you think I would of got for my project?..I had all my experiments and stuff....just a guess thanks!

    And this is for everyone out there am sure!...I DID A HORRIBLE PAPER!!...I was never anygood an Ag Science but this was a step too far!!...I attempted every question, purely talking ****e the hole way through it,i knew nothin at all!!!...but i wrote a good bit of common sense.....so with my project and an exam that i did really bad in,what do you reckon my chances of passin are?...I understand you havnt a clue without looking!

    Will the paper be marked easier do you think?..but even if they change the marking sceme, I dont think I got anythin right so how can they give me marks for a wrong answer!!:(:(:(:(



    To be honest I can't answer that. You're asking me to grade a project without ever seeing it or meeting you. And I have no idea of your ability. But if you want a little perspective on it, two thirds of students doing ag science get an A or a B in the project, so unless you've made a total balls of it you've probably done fine. Remember you'd probably get at least half marks for having each part of the project written up so you can only go up from there.


    Most people's projects give them enough with the paper to pass the exam. I have seen plenty of people get an E in the paper over the years but pass over all because they have done a good project.

    I don't know what way the paper is going to be marked until we see how the answering of the paper pans out. You probably got more right than you imagine. It only takes a couple of sticky questions on a paper for a student to come out of it with a bad feeling. If I had been a student yesterday and had seen indicator species as the first question and then go on to maize silage etc etc, I would have felt pretty crap doing the exam, because everyone answers question 1 so if you feel you got off to a good start it probably sets your mood for the rest of the exam, and vice versa if it was a tough question like yesterday.

    If you answered every question, then all of them will be marked and you will get your best six. You have given yourself the best chance of doing well. Don't focus on the stuff that you didn't know, focus on the stuff that you didn know. Or rather forget about it, there's nothing you can do now and relax until the results come out in August.


  • #59
    user12
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭user12


    Yes I know I understand
    For the project,how much is the silage project of it?...The rest of my project was perfect just the silage let me down!

    Do you get any attempt marks in Ag Science?


  • #60
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    user12 wrote: »
    Yes I know I understand
    For the project,how much is the silage project of it?...The rest of my project was perfect just the silage let me down!

    Do you get any attempt marks in Ag Science?

    Well in the project there are 15 marks for two crops... silage-grass and/or a cereal and/or a root crop. Two of the three.

    Attempt marks is not like maths. But questions will be split into sections, eg a lot of the questions yesterday asked for four reason for whatever.... assuming 16 marks for that question they would probably be given 4 each, so if you get two of the four correct answers you would get 8 marks.


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  • #61
    user12
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭user12


    So basically the silage and grass project is only worth 15% of the over project mark?

    What percentage fail Ag Science do you think?


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