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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Everybody: End the middle figure and 'shouting' talk now, and please also drop the all capped words -- just used normal text please!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I think if you asked IE they'd prefer to partner with a bikeshare company as they are doing with GoCar. They would get some of the cycling trade with no effort on their part bar some advertising and promotion. On the flip side though this would likely skew their choice of partners to companies that can operate multiple sites rather than enterprises local to each district.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    dowlingm wrote: »
    I think if you asked IE they'd prefer to partner with a bikeshare company as they are doing with GoCar. They would get some of the cycling trade with no effort on their part bar some advertising and promotion. On the flip side though this would likely skew their choice of partners to companies that can operate multiple sites rather than enterprises local to each district.
    Interesting DM, Indeed IE should be putting together packages to access the GWG on the Westport route and maybe working with one or two of the bike hire companies in Westport/Newport - I don't think they would find a national partner as you rightly point out - but this is an imaginative idea of how greenway/railway can work together to create jobs in Ireland, but it would of course require some creative marketing and work on the part of IE. Apparently they read this thread so maybe they will pick up on this free marketing idea.

    Personally I think they should do "a bring your bike for free promotion" on the Westport line - in particular on off peak trains to encourage (a) use of the train (b) our domestic tourist trade. It could be done at virtually zero cost advertising with use of good PR and social media to communicate the idea. What are you waiting for Barry....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    westtip wrote: »
    ..........................Personally I think they should do "a bring your bike for free promotion" on the Westport line - in particular on off peak trains to encourage (a) use of the train (b) our domestic tourist trade. It could be done at virtually zero cost advertising with use of good PR and social media to communicate the idea. What are you waiting for Barry....

    Great idea but the snags should be immediately apparent in that 3 car 22K trains carry just 3 bicycles. The problem for a weekend cyclist would be narrow time frame for the return journeys on a Sunday and would there be enough spaces, for all the cyclists who travelled out on the Saturday ?

    It seems that with limited on board bike spaces, no meaningful amount of bikes, over any given period of days or weeks, would be carried West by train even if free carriage is granted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Great idea but the snags should be immediately apparent in that 3 car 22K trains carry just 3 bicycles. The problem for a weekend cyclist would be narrow time frame for the return journeys on a Sunday and would there be enough spaces, for all the cyclists who travelled out on the Saturday ?

    It seems that with limited on board bike spaces, no meaningful amount of bikes, over any given period of days or weeks, would be carried West by train even if free carriage is granted.

    Good managers solve problems with solutions! Problem is does IE have the imaginative good management it needs:D It's probably been floated to them before but if we want to encourage sustainable transport, increase the participation in cycling and get more people onto the trains they will have to think creatively - whats the rules on shoving a bike under the storage area of a bus?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    There isn't much capacity for bikes on trains on the disused sections of the WRC....some scope for bikes on their own wheels though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    westtip wrote: »
    Good managers solve problems with solutions! Problem is does IE have the imaginative good management it needs:D It's probably been floated to them before but if we want to encourage sustainable transport, increase the participation in cycling and get more people onto the trains they will have to think creatively - whats the rules on shoving a bike under the storage area of a bus?

    Putting two and two together, I figure IE's solution is to provide all those links on its website to the various bike hire shops throughout the West. What could be tried is a 50/50 seating/standing train running to eg Westport on a daily basis during the tourist season. Cyclists could stand with their bikes or bungee them to an upright bar, just like on the more modern DARTs. So then you could get 50+ bikes to the West in one go.

    I think BK mentioned carrying his bike on the bus - Good luck to the buses if they can do it or anyone else for that matter, it's just that trains would have done it years ago without all the hoo-hah that pertains nowadays.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    How about coaches with trailers for bikes? ever been done?

    or indeed a rack on the rear end like you see on cars (only bigger)


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    of course trains should be more bike friendly
    (ok maybe not on the DART at rush hour) but why not have the last carriage (with flip up seats) earmarked for bikes
    As someone who has using bikes in Germany on trains particularly in some urban areas (normally the carriages have a symbol to say you can bring your bike on board)
    I found the same in Czech republic and Austria - it is such as convenience
    In scandanavia i found it depended on the train, or I had to wait for the next rain to bring the bike aboard.

    But for tourists who hire a bike and want to say cycle in Connemara, to the burren or by Clew bay, or even just around Galway or Clare or Limerick - making the Western Rail line more bike friendly and the athlone to westport line would be a major enhancement
    Wouldn't it be great to advertise bike and rail holidays - or have an open week Rail Ticket which allowed someone to use their bike.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    corktina wrote: »
    How about coaches with trailers for bikes? ever been done?

    Why not just adapt a coach 50% seating 50% bike space ? One of those double decker coaches would be ideal - lower deck for bikes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Why not just adapt a coach 50% seating 50% bike space ?

    Why not reduce train lengths by 50%, save some money over the status quo and not take the risk on whether or not there is a market for , what?, 50 bikes per train.


    edit...read you post properly now...proper answer; because it may not be economic?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    corktina wrote: »
    Why not reduce train lengths by 50%, save some money over the status quo and not take the risk on whether or not there is a market for , what?, 50 bikes per train.


    edit...read you post properly now...proper answer; because it may not be economic?

    I don't see where the problem would be for a private bus operator, they would just charge for the bike in lieu of a passenger and as it stands their fares are minimal anyway. There might be not much else required other than stripping out seats and providing poles and rails to bungee the bikes. The market admittedly would have to be established first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Lads we're not thinking big enough at all. Timber wagons would hold loads of bikes if one was hitched onto a 22K :D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    corktina wrote: »
    There isn't much capacity for bikes on trains on the disused sections of the WRC....some scope for bikes on their own wheels though
    I'd be pessimistic about it ever happening though. It suits politicians to keep the WRC as a promise that they know full well they can't deliver on. That kind of rhetoric goes down very well with the electorate in the west, once it's mixed in with a big dollop of 'that crowd up in Dublin is out to get us, but I'm the man to sort them out.'
    Rust, briars and the gradual loss of a valuable strip of state-owned land with huge potential; that's the future for the WRC.
    We live in a democracy, and sometimes the price for that is that we lose out because the 'group-think' of the political elite springs from a lack of vision and a good slice of ignorance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    eastwest wrote: »
    I'd be pessimistic about it ever happening though. It suits politicians to keep the WRC as a promise that they know full well they can't deliver on. That kind of rhetoric goes down very well with the electorate in the west, once it's mixed in with a big dollop of 'that crowd up in Dublin is out to get us, but I'm the man to sort them out.'
    Rust, briars and the gradual loss of a valuable strip of state-owned land with huge potential; that's the future for the WRC.
    We live in a democracy, and sometimes the price for that is that we lose out because the 'group-think' of the political elite springs from a lack of vision and a good slice of ignorance.

    Sorry eastwest but this is patronising bollocks. It is redolent of Brecht's The Solution. You are trying to change the situation on the ground in the West and when it doesn't change quickly enough, even though you are pushing at an open door in many ways, this aul guff comes out.

    Have the balls to stand for election next year and stop this condescending we know best crap.

    I am also mystified as to how exactly the State "loses" ownership of the land. If they want it, they'll get it right enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Sorry eastwest but this is patronising bollocks. It is redolent of Brecht's The Solution. You are trying to change the situation on the ground in the West and when it doesn't change quickly enough, even though you are pushing at an open door in many ways, this aul guff comes out.

    Have the balls to stand for election next year and stop this condescending we know best crap.

    I am also mystified as to how exactly the State "loses" ownership of the land. If they want it, they'll get it right enough.

    When you lack an argument, it can be useful to resort to abusive and/or 'unparliamentary' language. Another good tactic is to introduce an unrelated issue like 'stand for election next year', complete with more unseemly language.

    Any good student of Irish politics will understand my point about the need for rural Irish politicians to have undeliverable promises in their satchels. If you recall the late Noel Browne's story about being approached by Mark Killilea, you will understand. Killilea berated Browne for attempting to reform the health service, complaining that TDs would have nothing left to promise if the problems in the service were put to rights.

    Draining the Shannon was another undeliverable that sustained many a career, and indeed in recent times there has been an attempt by a west of Ireland politician to dredge that old chestnut up again.

    So, abuse me all you will; I stand over my analysis of the situation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    eastwest wrote: »
    When you lack an argument, it can be useful to resort to abusive and/or 'unparliamentary' language. Another good tactic is to introduce an unrelated issue like 'stand for election next year', complete with more unseemly language.

    Any good student of Irish politics will understand my point about the need for rural Irish politicians to have undeliverable promises in their satchels. If you recall the late Noel Browne's story about being approached by Mark Killilea, you will understand. Killilea berated Browne for attempting to reform the health service, complaining that TDs would have nothing left to promise if the problems in the service were put to rights.

    Draining the Shannon was another undeliverable that sustained many a career, and indeed in recent times there has been an attempt by a west of Ireland politician to dredge that old chestnut up again.

    So, abuse me all you will; I stand over my analysis of the situation.

    God save us, I'm challenging you to actually make the change you so desperately seek. If you really want to change the mindset of any part of rural Ireland you need to do it head on and not in a roundabout way. Do you collectively have the courage to do that or would you prefer to be the smart alecs on the side?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    eastwest wrote: »
    When you lack an argument, it can be useful to resort to abusive and/or 'unparliamentary' language. Another good tactic is to introduce an unrelated issue like 'stand for election next year', complete with more unseemly language.

    This is the sort of stuff the Sligo Mayo Greenway campaigners talk about on their Facebook page:
    arriving on the thrain, having his big thrunk took to the hotel by a forelock-tugging porther while he throws a handful of coins to the urchins. That's tourism, boyo, not a crowd of feckin forreigners on bicycles lookin for food and beds all over the feckin place. Shur we wouldn't have places for them all ta stay.
    No good'll come of it, I'm tellin ya. That's why the bishops is agin it, shur our youths and comely maidens might have their heads turned altogether by them forreigners, so they might.
    No, a thrain ta Knock airport is what's wanted, and don't mind if there's no wan on it. Shur you could set yer watch by the thrain, we used to stop footin turf and look at it puffin away along the thrack, wit the yanks lookin at us and laffin.
    Ah, the good old days, we were poor but we were honest, and we had the clergy ta tell us what ta think, so we had, thanks be ta god.

    Source: https://www.facebook.com/sligomayogreenway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    This is the sort of stuff the Sligo Mayo Greenway campaigners talk about on their Facebook page:



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/sligomayogreenway

    Well I suppose a few lads down the pub would consider that putting it up to their opponents but a real boots on the ground campaign it isn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The ideal stock for this (a bike train) would probably have been the Mark 3 PPs, if the DVT had the seats ripped out and a higher capacity generator and some bike racks fitted. Ah well!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Banjoxed wrote: »

    Have the balls to stand for election next year and stop this condescending we know best crap.

    .

    People generally don't stand for election on single issue campaigns and succeed, the same could be put to West on Track - if they are so committed to the railway put themselves up as candidates. We would welcome an open plebiscite on the issue, but have stood by the democratic process in what has happened in Mayo - with the sheer volume of submissions put in on the county plan asking for a greenway - and the voice of opinion expressed in a survey of 1300+ people on the Swinford area that overwhelmingly favoured a greenway. What we have done within the democratic process is the normal way of doing things - lobbying, and so far quite successfully from the top down and the bottom up. Alan Kelly agreed with the idea and Varadkar has made his feelings known. Other TDs have joined the support for a greenway. Sligo county council only last week discussed the issue and want to know more about the greenway option, Mayo county council are going to have to consider it. All this change in political attitude in Greenway v Railway/do nothing option has been driven by lobbying and seeking to change public opinion through both the national and local media. The Greenway campaign will be seeking to get candidates confirmed views on the greenway next year in the local elections and will publish a list of candidates who have said they will support the greenway until such time as a railway is possible.

    Stand for election on this one issue though, no thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    God save us, I'm challenging you to actually make the change you so desperately seek. If you really want to change the mindset of any part of rural Ireland you need to do it head on and not in a roundabout way. Do you collectively have the courage to do that or would you prefer to be the smart alecs on the side?
    On one level, I don't care whether the north west sinks or swims; it doesn't affect me one way or another. My own interest in this issue is in seeing opportunities maximised so that people don't have to emigrate or live on handouts. Most people want to work and contribute to society, so why not create the infrastructure to allow them to do that? That is the role of government, after all.
    What I have tried to say, and what seems to have aroused your ire to the point where you engage in abusive comments, is that the logjam on this issue is local politicians, both TDs and Councillors. In my view, at the risk of upping your blood pressure further, the stance of these politicians is based on self preservation rather than the interests of the people that they laughingly purport to "serve".
    Again, in my view, and obviously not in yours, these people will jump on whatever horse they see as having a chance of winning. A population that was fed for more than a decade with one side of this story by a bunch of well-intentioned but naive dreamers expects politicians to deliver a promised railway. It makes no difference that the railway is never coming; what is important is that everyone stays on song and keeps promising.
    That is why I am pessimistic about not only the future of this asset but with the future of that entire area. It is generally badly represented by people driven by self-interest only, and that seems unlikely to change.
    If you have a problem with anything that the local campaign for a greenway does or says, take it up with them. As for my standing for election, why on earth would I want to do that?
    Maybe you should stand next time, or maybe you will be doing that anyway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    God save us, I'm challenging you to actually make the change you so desperately seek. If you really want to change the mindset of any part of rural Ireland you need to do it head on and not in a roundabout way. Do you collectively have the courage to do that or would you prefer to be the smart alecs on the side?

    I think you have completely the wrong end of the stick here. Challenging us to stand at the polls I think is what you are suggesting - I provided my analysis of what we are doing a couple of posts back, we are not the "smart alecs" you choose to describe us - we have in fact put a lot of effort into getting the right level of argument across to the elected representative, frankly I don't give a toss about you challenging us, we have challenged those in governance to consider our ideas, and I don't think any of "us" has the inclination to take to the hustings on this single issue, no more I guess than West on Track do. We are not going about it in a roundabout way to change the mindset of rural ireland - although many people living in the west of Ireland are not of a "rural mindset" but that is a sociological issue; and wider debate; we have actually opened the debate of greenway or do nothing for another 30 years in both local and national media, (and the greenway or railway is a misnoma - the railway is not going to happen) the greenway issue is now firmly on the agenda - it wasn't 18 months ago - is moving our views onto the open public agenda of debate going about things in roundabout way? I don't think it is. Regarding some of the comments about our facebook page - well do you know what I wouldn't take everything to seriously written on facebook - would you - a bit of sounding off now and again and p*ss taking is required in life, sure isn't that all part of the mix.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Been bit quiet of late lads but we can always rely on back benchers to stir the hornets nest

    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18637%3Aomahony-re-affirms-support-for-western-rail-corridor&catid=23%3Anews&Itemid=46
    Mayo Government TD, John O’Mahony, has re-affirmed his support for the Western Rail Corridor in light of proposals for the development of a Greenway on the Claremorris to Collooney section of the railway line.

    Trying to swing both ways -as ever with our politicians, but this one from J O'M takes the biscuit.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Please don't post more than the first paragraph of an article!

    Don't reply - thanks


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    This is a discussion on the disused sections only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    disused/used there is not much difference! 8 passengers per train between ennis and athenry - shall we start a thread on the not used to much sections?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Article in todays Connacht Tribune
    Motorway completion will reduce need for rail corridor reopening
    http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1553-motorway-completion-will-reduce-need-for-rail-corridor-reopening


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I'd like to see the scores for other projects such as improving Galway to Dublin or Cork Suburban (Blarney Parkway et al) or Navan.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    Article in todays Connacht Tribune
    Motorway completion will reduce need for rail corridor reopening
    http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1553-motorway-completion-will-reduce-need-for-rail-corridor-reopening

    A quick read of that article shows a number of serious factual errors. These include the assertion that a “new” report has recommended against the re-opening of the Tuam-Athenry railway and that when assessed it scored only 41 points on a scale of 100.

    In fact the AECOM report the article refers to scored Tuam-Athenry at 61 points, the highest score and recommended that a passenger service was reinstated.


This discussion has been closed.
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