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'Legitimate Rape'

24567

Comments

  • #32
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,736 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Where To wrote: »
    ?

    What's that supposed to mean?

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/07/30/donegal-county-council-back-call-opposing-abortion-legislation/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #33
    Show Time
    Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    When "God" comes into any sort of debate than reason and common sense go out the window.


  • #34
    humbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    newmug wrote: »
    Am I the only one who thinks that he meant "legitimate" rape to mean a brutal assault where sex was non-consensual, as opposed to the type of "rape" which happens nowadays sometimes, whereby two people have consensual sex, but the woman decides afterwards she didn't actually want it?

    I think this is worth saying. His choice of words was poor, and suspiciously so, but I don't think he meant that rape is sometimes legitimate.

    I'd be curious if the shock of a violent attack does in any way reduce the chances of conception. Though it's still a flawed argument because you can't ignore something like that on the grounds that it is infrequent.

    I also agree with bluewolf's argument, if you're dumb enough to regard a foetus as a person, it can't really matter how it got there.

    I hate pro-life anti-abortion religious nutters.


  • #35
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    I'm curious to know exactly how this mechanism of "shutting down" to avoid a pregnancy after a rape.

    If I'd known our bodies could do that I wouldn't have wasted money on the pill for the last 8 years.


  • #36
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    newmug wrote: »
    Am I the only one who thinks that he meant "legitimate" rape to mean a brutal assault where sex was non-consensual, as opposed to the type of "rape" which happens nowadays sometimes, whereby two people have consensual sex, but the woman decides afterwards she didn't actually want it?

    OK, apart from anything else ...

    Do think that the chances of a woman becoming pregnant depend on whether or not the sexual intercourse had been consensual, or not?

    Honestly, I don't see the relevance of your comment in the context of the politician's argument?


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  • #37
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    humbert wrote: »
    newmug wrote: »
    Am I the only one who thinks that he meant "legitimate" rape to mean a brutal assault where sex was non-consensual, as opposed to the type of "rape" which happens nowadays sometimes, whereby two people have consensual sex, but the woman decides afterwards she didn't actually want it?

    I think this is worth saying. His choice of words was poor, and suspiciously so, but I don't think he meant that rape is sometimes legitimate.

    I'd be curious if the shock of a violent attack does in any way reduce the chances of conception. Though it's still a flawed argument because you can't ignore something like that on the grounds that it is infrequent.

    I also agree with bluewolf's argument, if you're dumb enough to regard a foetus as a person, it can't really matter how it got there.

    I hate pro-life anti-abortion religious nutters.

    Pro-life, anti abortion "nutters" are not all religious. I'm pro life and I'm not religious. Stop generalising and using the standard religious nutter phrase to try and strengthen your argument.

    I don't hate pro choice people, I don't call them liberal fruitcakes


  • #38
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    First of all I am pro abortion if a woman wants an abortion it is her choice no matter the circumstances fullstop.

    But I ask, has the senator twat got a point. To what I know about the biology of pregnancy, conception resulting from rape would be difficult and it would be rare.


  • #39
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Colmustard wrote: »
    To what I know about the biology of pregnancy, conception resulting from rape would be difficult and it would be rare.
    I'd say it's simply down to statistical chance. Average couple trying for a baby would rarely get lucky on the first try and would require a fair few attempts to conceive. So a one off rape event is less likely to result in pregnancy. Nada to do with what that eejit was suggesting. PLus there are enough babies born of rape to severely brutalised women in war torn areas to knock that idea on the head.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #40
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    Colmustard wrote: »
    First of all I am pro abortion if a woman wants an abortion it is her choice no matter the circumstances fullstop.

    I have heard of people being pro-choice. Pro-abortion is a first, for me!

    An abortion is never an ideal or happy outcome, and I would think it is almost always going to be a very difficult and sad decision for any woman to make.
    Colmustard wrote: »
    But I ask, has the senator twat got a point. To what I know about the biology of pregnancy, conception resulting from rape would be difficult and it would be rare.

    What. The. Fuck.

    Tell me more about what you know of "the biology of pregnancy"?

    I'm intrigued. Because I truly can't see how conception resulting from rape would be any more difficult or rare than conception resulting from consensual intercourse, all other factors being identical.


  • #41
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    chatterpillar wrote: »
    I'm intrigued. Because I truly can't see how conception resulting from rape would be any more difficult or rare than conception resulting from consensual intercourse, all other factors being identical.
    This. The egg is either in the position to be available to the sperm or it ain't, regardless of the situational state of the woman.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • #42
    hoochis
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭hoochis


    newmug wrote: »
    Am I the only one who thinks that he meant "legitimate" rape to mean a brutal assault where sex was non-consensual, as opposed to the type of "rape" which happens nowadays sometimes, whereby two people have consensual sex, but the woman decides afterwards she didn't actually want it?

    I thought legitimate rape was when you had sex with your wife without her consent!


  • #43
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This. The egg is either in the position to be available to the sperm or it ain't, regardless of the situational state of the woman.

    Also the conditions for the sperms passage has to be right which would be disrupted by rape. But as you posted above it does happen, but I would imagine rarely.

    It was just a question I do not agree with the twat what so ever.


  • #44
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    newmug wrote: »
    Am I the only one who thinks that he meant "legitimate" rape to mean a brutal assault where sex was non-consensual, as opposed to the type of "rape" which happens nowadays sometimes, whereby two people have consensual sex, but the woman decides afterwards she didn't actually want it?

    Do you have any facts or statistics to back up the numbers of women who change their mind post coitus? Or is this another one of those 'my mate shagged a bird who cried rape, what a b!tch' anecdotes?


  • #45
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    chatterpillar wrote: »
    I have heard of people being pro-choice. Pro-abortion is a first, for me!

    An abortion is never an ideal or happy outcome, and I would think it is almost always going to be a very difficult and sad decision for any woman to make.


    Because pro/choice and the moronic meaningless chant of pro/life makes little sense to me.

    I say if a woman wants an abortion it is her decision and never a mans no matter the circumstances. So I am pro/woman.

    Why is always in the majority of cases, its always men that oppose abortion, if by some freak of nature men were to suddenly be the ones to carry a pregnancy I bet they would change their tune.


  • #46
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    newmug wrote: »
    as opposed to the type of "rape" which happens nowadays sometimes, whereby two people have consensual sex, but the woman decides afterwards she didn't actually want it?

    False rape claims are estimated to be in and around 2-8% of all rape allegations, leaving 92-98% to be legitimate. Many rapes are not even reported - I have two friends who have been raped who didn't go to the police; they didn't think they'd be believed. Rape is an awful lot commoner that maybe you'd like to believe.

    Also 5% of rapes result in pregnancy, apparently that's in and around the same rate as via as ordinary unprotected intercourse. -I'll see if I can dig up the study that demostrated this now.

    Edit: Here's a link to the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248


  • #47
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    hoochis wrote: »
    I thought legitimate rape was when you had sex with your wife without her consent!
    The joke is it was the 90's in this country before marital rape was added as an offence to the law books.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #48
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    But, hey, who needs science when a woman's uterus can magically discern if a sexual encounter was consensual or not?

    Perhaps he's implying that a uterus has a conscience. Some are sluttier than others. There's nothing worse than an immoral uterus. We all know the type. A secular uterus.

    A god fearing wholesome uterus only churns out moral babies and would never allow itself to be the host to a tool of saytaaaaaan.

    Or something along those lines...


  • #49
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This. The egg is either in the position to be available to the sperm or it ain't, regardless of the situational state of the woman.

    Well stress hormones have been scientifically shown to reduce the chances of conception but I'd presume this effect is more long term.


  • #50
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Colmustard wrote: »
    chatterpillar wrote: »
    I have heard of people being pro-choice. Pro-abortion is a first, for me!

    An abortion is never an ideal or happy outcome, and I would think it is almost always going to be a very difficult and sad decision for any woman to make.


    Because pro/choice and the moronic meaningless chant of pro/life makes little sense to me.

    I say if a woman wants an abortion it is her decision and never a mans no matter the circumstances. So I am pro/woman.

    Why is always in the majority of cases men that oppose abortion, if by some freak of nature men were to suddenly be the ones to carry a pregnancy I bet they would change their tune.

    Your logic is sexist and discriminatory, you believe men should not be allowed a say on this matter, none of us would be here were it not for men .
    Do you believe people only have the right to an opinion if they themselves have had first hand experience of a certain situation?


  • #51
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Your logic is sexist and discriminatory, you believe men should not be allowed a say on this matter
    To be fair to him, the notion that male partners shouldn't have a say about a termination is common enough.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • #52
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Your logic is sexist and discriminatory, you believe men should not be allowed a say on this matter, none of us would be here were it not for men .
    Do you believe people only have the right to an opinion if they themselves have had first hand experience of a certain situation?

    If I made someone pregnant which was inconvenient to me, I would never have the right to coerce her into having an abortion. It is not my choice. It is her body and totally up to her if she wants to carry the pregnancy or not.

    I don't think there is a court in the world that would order her to. So it is always solely a woman's choice. Nothing to do with men. I don't really think that is sexist, because I as a man would never have to make that choice, so its irrelevant to me.


  • #53
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    The thing about both the man and the woman having equal say in whether to abort a pregnancy is impossible - it's a perfect 50/50 tied vote. Either the man or the woman has to have the deciding vote.

    I have all the empathy in the world for the plight of men who want to have the baby when their partner does not - right now the decision is in the control of the woman (in most of the 1st world anyway), he cannot either force her to keep going with the pregnancy or to have an abortion.

    But until the man is in a position to bear the child himself he cannot expect to decide whether or not a pregnancy he helped to begin should be continued or terminated.


  • #54
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    B0jangles wrote: »
    The thing about both the man and the woman having equal say in whether to abort a pregnancy is impossible - it's a perfect 50/50 tied vote. Either the man or the woman has to have the deciding vote.

    I have all the empathy in the world for the plight of men who want to have the baby when their partner does not - right now the decision is in the control of the woman (in most of the 1st world anyway), he cannot either force her to keep going with the pregnancy or to have an abortion.

    But until the man is in a position to bear the child himself he cannot expect to decide whether or not a pregnancy he helped to begin should be continued or terminated.

    Exactly and put much better then my effort.


  • #55
    Zomg Okay
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Zomg Okay


    Colmustard wrote: »
    If I made someone pregnant which was inconvenient to me, I would never have the right to coerce her into having an abortion. It is not my choice. It is her body and totally up to her if she wants to carry the pregnancy or not.

    I don't think there is a court in the world that would order her to. So it is always solely a woman's choice. Nothing to do with men. I don't really think that is sexist, because I as a man would never have to make that choice, so its irrelevant to me.

    That isn't a reason to deny us an opinion on the matter, though.


  • #56
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    B0jangles wrote: »
    The thing about both the man and the woman having equal say in whether to abort a pregnancy is impossible - it's a perfect 50/50 tied vote. Either the man or the woman has to have the deciding vote.
    For a moment ignore all the ethics and look at the economics.

    Men have a very large financial interest in voting No.

    Depending on the financial status of the rapist they could be paying out for 18 years. For the long term unemployable this won't change things much and millionaires can of course just hand over €75,000.

    For a woman things like loss of earnings mean that a child is probably the most expensive thing she will ever do.


  • #57
    hattoncracker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭hattoncracker


    http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(96)70141-2/abstract

    Report on rape-related pregnancy, it's not as rare a situation as he might like to think.

    Makes for somber reading.


  • #58
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    Zomg Okay wrote: »
    That isn't a reason to deny us an opinion on the matter, though.

    You can have an opinion, but that is all, we should not be allowed to deny a woman's right to have the final say. For instance the law forbidding abortion in this country is morally wrong and mainly put there by men.

    Yes there was a referendum, but it was put forward mainly by Garret Fitzgerald and the catholic church at a time IMO when women's right's in this country was questionable.


  • #59
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    And then there is the woman who is running against him, who is also a christian evangelical and opens her political message with "I am not a witch".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxJyPsmEask


  • #60
    marshbaboon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭marshbaboon


    I'm honestly not a violent or judgemental person, but people like our good friend here need to be swiftly removed from the gene pool.


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  • #61
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Video here: http://www.thejournal.ie/todd-akin-legitimate-rape-misspoke-564757-Aug2012/

    He's another Republican nut-job.
    They seem to breed them! Nuts!


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